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#11
09-29-2007, 02:03 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
imagine all the money that would go directly into financing terrorism against us if we left iraq [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Are you saying that our presence in Iraq DECREASES the number of people (and their finances) that want to hurt us?????? 
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#12
09-29-2007, 03:02 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, the threat from Iran is real. That doesn't mean Iran needs to be prevented from getting nukes. Another war in the Middle East would be a much more ruinously costly and messy idea. The Iraq War is destined to go on forever, because what the U.S. wants (Iraqis to get along with each other in a stable political system) the U.S. cannot provide. Only Iraqis can provide that, and they don't appear willing or ready to. And it doesn't appear that that will change anytime soon. Get every American out of the Middle East. Screw it. Tell them we're never coming back, it's all theirs, and be well - and if they F with us it will be Lights Out from a very long distance away. Get the USA back to a truly Constitutional basis, as Ron Paul would do. Renew our prosperity and private investment by massively cutting government and taxes. Stop giving free social services to illegal immigrants and watch them leave in droves. Don't mess with the rest of the world. Wish them well but take care of ourselves. Trade with them and smile at them. Bring our overseas troops home from all over the world. Save trillions of dollars overseas and at home, and let the people keep that money and invest it instead. This would be the path to a good future. The path we are on now is not a path to a good future. It's not yet too late but it could be getting close. Wake up America, and get down to the basics of freedom and prosperity again. Get back to our Constitutional roots and get the government out of our lives. Shrink it and starve it financially so it can only be the lean mean rights-protecting-machine it was originally designed to be, along with a few other mundane duties as specifically described in the Constitution. Realize that the Welfare Clause doesn't mean government can do anything at all that might help the general welfare, but rather that anything it does must help the general welfare. It is a qualifying clause not a granting clause. Realize too that the Commerce Clause has been ridiculously broadly interpreted into an absurd instrument granting nearly unlimited powers to the federal government. Fix that. Stop looking to government to solve our personal problems and start solving them ourselves. That's the answer. Sadly, I think America must suffer much more greatly before enough Americans come to realize it so that it will be put into practice. The Neo-Cons are on the path right now to ensuring that much of that suffering will be forthcoming. The USA will NOT be able to transform the Middle East into what it would like it to be. Realize that and accept reality and move out and move on. The more we mess with the Middle East the worse it will get. The administration's doctrine that spreading democracy is essential to our security is absurd, and impossible to achieve anyway. Countries and cultures must want freedom and democracy and pay the price for it of their own volition, before it will work for them. And we mistake if we think, as Bush does, that everyone wants the same things as us. That just isn't so. They're doing what they want to do for the most part already. If the Shi'ites and the Sunnis keep fighting each other it's because they want to. Get out of their way; we can't really stop them anyway. They have to solve it for themselves. Anyway, there's more than enough to do at home. Really and truly. Take care and God bless, and thanks for reading. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this whole statement just isolationism? In light of the present realities of global trade, technology and the naturally occurring and evolving state of socio-global development, how could your requests ever work?
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#13
09-29-2007, 03:16 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes, the threat from Iran is real. That doesn't mean Iran needs to be prevented from getting nukes. Another war in the Middle East would be a much more ruinously costly and messy idea. The Iraq War is destined to go on forever, because what the U.S. wants (Iraqis to get along with each other in a stable political system) the U.S. cannot provide. Only Iraqis can provide that, and they don't appear willing or ready to. And it doesn't appear that that will change anytime soon. Get every American out of the Middle East. Screw it. Tell them we're never coming back, it's all theirs, and be well - and if they F with us it will be Lights Out from a very long distance away. Get the USA back to a truly Constitutional basis, as Ron Paul would do. Renew our prosperity and private investment by massively cutting government and taxes. Stop giving free social services to illegal immigrants and watch them leave in droves. Don't mess with the rest of the world. Wish them well but take care of ourselves. Trade with them and smile at them. Bring our overseas troops home from all over the world. Save trillions of dollars overseas and at home, and let the people keep that money and invest it instead. This would be the path to a good future. The path we are on now is not a path to a good future. It's not yet too late but it could be getting close. Wake up America, and get down to the basics of freedom and prosperity again. Get back to our Constitutional roots and get the government out of our lives. Shrink it and starve it financially so it can only be the lean mean rights-protecting-machine it was originally designed to be, along with a few other mundane duties as specifically described in the Constitution. Realize that the Welfare Clause doesn't mean government can do anything at all that might help the general welfare, but rather that anything it does must help the general welfare. It is a qualifying clause not a granting clause. Realize too that the Commerce Clause has been ridiculously broadly interpreted into an absurd instrument granting nearly unlimited powers to the federal government. Fix that. Stop looking to government to solve our personal problems and start solving them ourselves. That's the answer. Sadly, I think America must suffer much more greatly before enough Americans come to realize it so that it will be put into practice. The Neo-Cons are on the path right now to ensuring that much of that suffering will be forthcoming. The USA will NOT be able to transform the Middle East into what it would like it to be. Realize that and accept reality and move out and move on. The more we mess with the Middle East the worse it will get. The administration's doctrine that spreading democracy is essential to our security is absurd, and impossible to achieve anyway. Countries and cultures must want freedom and democracy and pay the price for it of their own volition, before it will work for them. And we mistake if we think, as Bush does, that everyone wants the same things as us. That just isn't so. They're doing what they want to do for the most part already. If the Shi'ites and the Sunnis keep fighting each other it's because they want to. Get out of their way; we can't really stop them anyway. They have to solve it for themselves. Anyway, there's more than enough to do at home. Really and truly. Take care and God bless, and thanks for reading. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this whole statement just isolationism? In light of the present realities of global trade, technology and the naturally occurring and evolving state of socio-global development, how could your requests ever work? [/ QUOTE ] How does it work for the rest of the world? How do the other nations of the world manage to exist without military bases in every corner of the world?
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#14
09-29-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes, the threat from Iran is real. That doesn't mean Iran needs to be prevented from getting nukes. Another war in the Middle East would be a much more ruinously costly and messy idea. The Iraq War is destined to go on forever, because what the U.S. wants (Iraqis to get along with each other in a stable political system) the U.S. cannot provide. Only Iraqis can provide that, and they don't appear willing or ready to. And it doesn't appear that that will change anytime soon. Get every American out of the Middle East. Screw it. Tell them we're never coming back, it's all theirs, and be well - and if they F with us it will be Lights Out from a very long distance away. Get the USA back to a truly Constitutional basis, as Ron Paul would do. Renew our prosperity and private investment by massively cutting government and taxes. Stop giving free social services to illegal immigrants and watch them leave in droves. Don't mess with the rest of the world. Wish them well but take care of ourselves. Trade with them and smile at them. Bring our overseas troops home from all over the world. Save trillions of dollars overseas and at home, and let the people keep that money and invest it instead. This would be the path to a good future. The path we are on now is not a path to a good future. It's not yet too late but it could be getting close. Wake up America, and get down to the basics of freedom and prosperity again. Get back to our Constitutional roots and get the government out of our lives. Shrink it and starve it financially so it can only be the lean mean rights-protecting-machine it was originally designed to be, along with a few other mundane duties as specifically described in the Constitution. Realize that the Welfare Clause doesn't mean government can do anything at all that might help the general welfare, but rather that anything it does must help the general welfare. It is a qualifying clause not a granting clause. Realize too that the Commerce Clause has been ridiculously broadly interpreted into an absurd instrument granting nearly unlimited powers to the federal government. Fix that. Stop looking to government to solve our personal problems and start solving them ourselves. That's the answer. Sadly, I think America must suffer much more greatly before enough Americans come to realize it so that it will be put into practice. The Neo-Cons are on the path right now to ensuring that much of that suffering will be forthcoming. The USA will NOT be able to transform the Middle East into what it would like it to be. Realize that and accept reality and move out and move on. The more we mess with the Middle East the worse it will get. The administration's doctrine that spreading democracy is essential to our security is absurd, and impossible to achieve anyway. Countries and cultures must want freedom and democracy and pay the price for it of their own volition, before it will work for them. And we mistake if we think, as Bush does, that everyone wants the same things as us. That just isn't so. They're doing what they want to do for the most part already. If the Shi'ites and the Sunnis keep fighting each other it's because they want to. Get out of their way; we can't really stop them anyway. They have to solve it for themselves. Anyway, there's more than enough to do at home. Really and truly. Take care and God bless, and thanks for reading. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this whole statement just isolationism? In light of the present realities of global trade, technology and the naturally occurring and evolving state of socio-global development, how could your requests ever work? [/ QUOTE ] In any case, it's not isolationism, it's non-interventionism. The USA would still trade and interact with the rest of the world, it just wouldn't interfere in their affairs.
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#15
09-29-2007, 04:27 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you have the right ideas OP but sadly its a cold harsh world out there. imagine all the money that would go directly into financing terrorism against us if we left iraq [/ QUOTE ] Imagine all the people who wouldn't become terrorists because their family wasn't blown up by an American bomb... [/ QUOTE ] Imagine all the people who wont become terrorists because their father was killed before he could teach him to strap on a bomb.
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#16
09-29-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Yes, the threat from Iran is real. That doesn't mean Iran needs to be prevented from getting nukes. Another war in the Middle East would be a much more ruinously costly and messy idea. The Iraq War is destined to go on forever, because what the U.S. wants (Iraqis to get along with each other in a stable political system) the U.S. cannot provide. Only Iraqis can provide that, and they don't appear willing or ready to. And it doesn't appear that that will change anytime soon. Get every American out of the Middle East. Screw it. Tell them we're never coming back, it's all theirs, and be well - and if they F with us it will be Lights Out from a very long distance away. Get the USA back to a truly Constitutional basis, as Ron Paul would do. Renew our prosperity and private investment by massively cutting government and taxes. Stop giving free social services to illegal immigrants and watch them leave in droves. Don't mess with the rest of the world. Wish them well but take care of ourselves. Trade with them and smile at them. Bring our overseas troops home from all over the world. Save trillions of dollars overseas and at home, and let the people keep that money and invest it instead. This would be the path to a good future. The path we are on now is not a path to a good future. It's not yet too late but it could be getting close. Wake up America, and get down to the basics of freedom and prosperity again. Get back to our Constitutional roots and get the government out of our lives. Shrink it and starve it financially so it can only be the lean mean rights-protecting-machine it was originally designed to be, along with a few other mundane duties as specifically described in the Constitution. Realize that the Welfare Clause doesn't mean government can do anything at all that might help the general welfare, but rather that anything it does must help the general welfare. It is a qualifying clause not a granting clause. Realize too that the Commerce Clause has been ridiculously broadly interpreted into an absurd instrument granting nearly unlimited powers to the federal government. Fix that. Stop looking to government to solve our personal problems and start solving them ourselves. That's the answer. Sadly, I think America must suffer much more greatly before enough Americans come to realize it so that it will be put into practice. The Neo-Cons are on the path right now to ensuring that much of that suffering will be forthcoming. The USA will NOT be able to transform the Middle East into what it would like it to be. Realize that and accept reality and move out and move on. The more we mess with the Middle East the worse it will get. The administration's doctrine that spreading democracy is essential to our security is absurd, and impossible to achieve anyway. Countries and cultures must want freedom and democracy and pay the price for it of their own volition, before it will work for them. And we mistake if we think, as Bush does, that everyone wants the same things as us. That just isn't so. They're doing what they want to do for the most part already. If the Shi'ites and the Sunnis keep fighting each other it's because they want to. Get out of their way; we can't really stop them anyway. They have to solve it for themselves. Anyway, there's more than enough to do at home. Really and truly. Take care and God bless, and thanks for reading. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this whole statement just isolationism? In light of the present realities of global trade, technology and the naturally occurring and evolving state of socio-global development, how could your requests ever work? [/ QUOTE ] How does it work for the rest of the world? How do the other nations of the world manage to exist without military bases in every corner of the world? [/ QUOTE ] They freeride on us, Israel, the UK and Aussies to some extent, obviously.
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#17
09-29-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
lol i should have known that this would be for ron paul...
isolationism is a terrible idea that was discredited in the early 20th century. do you really think if we close our eyes it will all go away?
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#18
09-29-2007, 04:37 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
lol i should have known that this would be for ron paul... isolationism is a terrible idea that was discredited in the early 20th century. do you really think if we close our eyes it will all go away? [/ QUOTE ] You can lay odds on any random post being about AC, Ron Paul or both
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#19
09-29-2007, 05:12 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Yes, the threat from Iran is real. That doesn't mean Iran needs to be prevented from getting nukes. Another war in the Middle East would be a much more ruinously costly and messy idea. The Iraq War is destined to go on forever, because what the U.S. wants (Iraqis to get along with each other in a stable political system) the U.S. cannot provide. Only Iraqis can provide that, and they don't appear willing or ready to. And it doesn't appear that that will change anytime soon. Get every American out of the Middle East. Screw it. Tell them we're never coming back, it's all theirs, and be well - and if they F with us it will be Lights Out from a very long distance away. Get the USA back to a truly Constitutional basis, as Ron Paul would do. Renew our prosperity and private investment by massively cutting government and taxes. Stop giving free social services to illegal immigrants and watch them leave in droves. Don't mess with the rest of the world. Wish them well but take care of ourselves. Trade with them and smile at them. Bring our overseas troops home from all over the world. Save trillions of dollars overseas and at home, and let the people keep that money and invest it instead. This would be the path to a good future. The path we are on now is not a path to a good future. It's not yet too late but it could be getting close. Wake up America, and get down to the basics of freedom and prosperity again. Get back to our Constitutional roots and get the government out of our lives. Shrink it and starve it financially so it can only be the lean mean rights-protecting-machine it was originally designed to be, along with a few other mundane duties as specifically described in the Constitution. Realize that the Welfare Clause doesn't mean government can do anything at all that might help the general welfare, but rather that anything it does must help the general welfare. It is a qualifying clause not a granting clause. Realize too that the Commerce Clause has been ridiculously broadly interpreted into an absurd instrument granting nearly unlimited powers to the federal government. Fix that. Stop looking to government to solve our personal problems and start solving them ourselves. That's the answer. Sadly, I think America must suffer much more greatly before enough Americans come to realize it so that it will be put into practice. The Neo-Cons are on the path right now to ensuring that much of that suffering will be forthcoming. The USA will NOT be able to transform the Middle East into what it would like it to be. Realize that and accept reality and move out and move on. The more we mess with the Middle East the worse it will get. The administration's doctrine that spreading democracy is essential to our security is absurd, and impossible to achieve anyway. Countries and cultures must want freedom and democracy and pay the price for it of their own volition, before it will work for them. And we mistake if we think, as Bush does, that everyone wants the same things as us. That just isn't so. They're doing what they want to do for the most part already. If the Shi'ites and the Sunnis keep fighting each other it's because they want to. Get out of their way; we can't really stop them anyway. They have to solve it for themselves. Anyway, there's more than enough to do at home. Really and truly. Take care and God bless, and thanks for reading. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this whole statement just isolationism? In light of the present realities of global trade, technology and the naturally occurring and evolving state of socio-global development, how could your requests ever work? [/ QUOTE ] In any case, it's not isolationism, it's non-interventionism. The USA would still trade and interact with the rest of the world, it just wouldn't interfere in their affairs. [/ QUOTE ] I don't believe non-interventionism is what the OP is advocating. Regardless, we do have many, significant strategic agreements. Is the argument that US should walk away from all of these commitments?
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#20
09-29-2007, 05:35 PM
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Re: Changing My Mind About Iran - And More On The USA
I find an interesting dilemma in the new makeup of the Supreme Court. The two additional conservative justices to the Court may help follow up further on Rhenquist's shrinking the scope of the Commerce Clause (though I am unsure how far they will get b/c they replaced conservative justices Rhenquist and O'Connor). But these same guys are also likely to reduce the privacy protections granted by substantive due process in the 60s and 70s (e.g., abortion).
I just wish "conservatives" who believe in small government would realize the hypocrisy in fighting against government regulation and involvement in business but at the same time advocating government regulation and involvement in personal/private affairs.
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