my toughest opponent - passive opponent NL

[redCashion]

I actually think this might be the type I like to play the most, though they will tilt me if I go too long without making a hand. But one of my strategies with this player is to only cbet when I hit, and do a delayed cbet on the turn if the board looks unlikely to have hit them and they have checked twice.

[abcjnich]

Cbet less and esp bluff cbet less since they are calling more. Another thing is to bet a less % of the pot on each street and see how they react. Maybe bet 2/3 on the flop, 1/2 on the turn, 1/3 on the river. If they are still folding everything except their monsters, you can bluff the hell out of them. If they call down lighter then its easier for you to vbet thinner.

[xSCWx]

[ QUOTE ]
Cbet less and esp bluff cbet less since they are calling more. Another thing is to bet a less % of the pot on each street and see how they react. Maybe bet 2/3 on the flop, 1/2 on the turn, 1/3 on the river. If they are still folding everything except their monsters, you can bluff the hell out of them. If they call down lighter then its easier for you to vbet thinner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really agree with cbetting significantly less, I think you just need to be more selective about which hands and flops you are cbetting with. I find that I will cbet K2 on A33 flops a lot, get called, then check through to show down king high vs J5. High card is good against these players more often than not.

[vodoo]

i think betting your draws would be a good idea against these players.

right?

[Vinetou]

What about if this opponent is also raising a lot of hands IP? I was talking most about OOP, but there are some guys who will play quite aggressive IP, but when they are OOP, they become like those passive guys I am talking about.

I agree with the idea of betting less than a pot. If they don't have a hand, they will just muck it. Also, bluffs on the river should be used a lot more than bluffs on flop and turn, what you think?

[dboy23]

well bluffs on the river probably have a larger chance of taking the pot, but bluffing the flop is fine as long as he will fold to the second barrel.


These guys really make it hard to tell where you are in a hand. But they give up EV by never controling the potsize, so in theory we should be beating them on that alone.

I think a good adjustment to make against these types is to make less thin value bets. Against normal(cally) opponents who take those lines you are probably used to valuebetting a lot of hands that you should be checking against passives.

[MasterLJ]

They are one of my least favorite opponents as well.

One trick that works is always always always multibarrell draws.

Basically, if you have a draw, you will be AI on the river every time, it is wildly profitable against thinking passive players as they will be willing to fold top pair and probably some weird lower 2 pairs.

Use position as your advantage and overbet shove lots of rivers.

[dboy23]

You are saying we should be bluffing all of our missed draws for value?


I'd also like to get into the best ways to play these guys when you are OOP.

[Vinetou]

[ QUOTE ]
I know exactly the opponent your talking about, I just assumed I was running bad vs. this particular type of player.
I tried being more conscience of timing tells on my part, as well it seems they adjust to your play if you start to slow down they stop calling so light.
I think the best way to adjust is tone down the aggression and just play straight forward, playing your cards. Because if they play the same way and all the big pots are when your in position and the small ones when they're in position because they never raise preflop, I think we can grind them down and have a significant edge. It's just about slowing down vs. this opp.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. They adjust to your play so that if you decide to not bluff them, they will call you less. I mean, those guys might be sharks, because they seem to know what they are doing. It is just completely different style than mine and I don't seem to get it.

You also get a feeling that you are running bad against those guys, but it is just their style that is confusing.

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
You are saying we should be bluffing all of our missed draws for value?


I'd also like to get into the best ways to play these guys when you are OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you miss they are still very likely to fold their hand to a river shove, if you hit you really don't care what happens.

It's high variance but extremely profitable.