3bet pot with TT vs LAG

[Nightfall123]

ya i dont know, i hate 4-betting and then folding with tens. Personally i dont mind making it like 210 and calling the shove against this type of player but that might be a leak in my game (i never believe people).

[Veron]

Villain is a competent LAG and he knows I'm TAG (21/17)

I think folding pre is much too weak and very exploitable since I'm isolating very wide here and villain is very likely 3betting a wide range.

I'm not sure if calling is better than 4betting though...

[keikiwai]

i don't mind pre given that your pf line looks like you have almost ATC and you do have position

you have to fold that flop, since his range def. includes all sorts of Ks from KQ to AK

[Nightfall123]

ya im not really not sure whats better, 4-betting or calling. Arguments can be made for both i suppose. I prefer the 4-bet but i guess its preference.

edit: because im too lazy to some math so ill say its preference.

[ManChild]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't mind pre given that your pf line looks like you have almost ATC and you do have position

you have to fold that flop, since his range def. includes all sorts of Ks from KQ to AK

[/ QUOTE ]


okay, there are so many parts of this that make no sense

first of all, 'all sorts of Ks from KQ to AK'
- so all sorts of Ks means 2 Ks total?

and also,
saying 'you have to fold that flop because his range includes Ks makes no sense'
given that logic you could fold KK to a PF raise because the raisers range 'includes AA'

[keikiwai]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't mind pre given that your pf line looks like you have almost ATC and you do have position

you have to fold that flop, since his range def. includes all sorts of Ks from KQ to AK

[/ QUOTE ]


okay, there are so many parts of this that make no sense

first of all, 'all sorts of Ks from KQ to AK'
- so all sorts of Ks means 2 Ks total?

and also,
saying 'you have to fold that flop because his range includes Ks makes no sense'
given that logic you could fold KK to a PF raise because the raisers range 'includes AA'

[/ QUOTE ]

KQ and AK is not 2 Ks in total

likelihood of AA is not equivalent to AK

there are 4*3 = 12 ways to be dealt AA

there are 4*4 = 16 ways to be dealt AK, so 32 ways to be dealt AK + KQ and he can def. have other Ks, AK and KQ was his top of range example

and yes, this becomes a bad fold if it keeps happening, but we're unsure of the strength of our hand and villain can very reasonable have us beat, so w/o further history this is an ez fold imo

[carrotsnake]

88 - or JT or A7 or like a ton of other hands

schpanko- realllllly ? I mean, I get we haven't played him before, but reallllly fold TT ?

Nicholas - just cuz something is at "best" a coinflip, does not mean we should fold it when we 4 bet it, ducy ?

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold pf without better reads, as played fold flop. Not much you can do here

[/ QUOTE ]

[keikiwai]

basically, we call the flop..... and then what?..... think about all the cards that can fall on the turn w/ that specific flop that'll make our life difficult

or we raise the flop.... and then yuck

[shpanko]

Yeah now that I think about it folding TT seems pretty week, we do have position and have the best hand a lot. Still we have little history.

I don't know I guess I just hate most post-flop situations where 1-2 overcards will hit and he's c-betting most everytime. Obviously this situation happens a ton and we're not folding pf everytime or even folding on the flop everytime, I just prefer there to be more history I guess.

Now that I reread the thread I kind of like the idea of calling the flop c-bet and then folding the turn, problem is if we check behind of the turn he might assume we don't have a king and shove the river, still most players will shutdown after their c-bet is called on a K high board.

I guess once we get to the flop I like either folding or only calling one street, with more history I might be shoving pf or shoving the flop.