multitabling and 1-2-3 distribution

[Pocketbear]

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1st place is heavily affected by got lucky (cards or suckouts). Survival (2nd/3rd) is where skill shows up more often.

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LOL.

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LOL huh? Really? How many times have you slid into the money because people were idiots on the bubble? If you don't suck, it's LOTS and lots. You survived to ITM, but your chip position sucks for a 1st place finish at that point.

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If you merely crawl in the money most of the time you're doing something wrong. Lots of people tend to overrate ITM percentage - it's 1st places that makes you the most profit, so your aim should be to play most effectively, not most safely.

And if you survive lots of bubbles because you tighten your play so much to let "idiots donk off on the bubble", but constantly find yourself in the situation where you have very few chips left ITM and no chances to shoot for the 1st, you shouldn't be proud of your play but rather revisit it very seriously.

I'm not saying you should always "go for the 1st" no matter what because surely there are situations where the best option is just to crawl ITM, but it shouldn't become your habit.

And about 1st place being heavily affected by luck, it's actually heavily affected by your play - card run evens out in a long run so it's all about the effectiveness of your play in the end.

[bogey1]

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it's 1st places that makes you the most profit, so your aim should be to play most effectively, not most safely.

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This is just wrong. The standard distribution is 50/30/20.

Calculating the "profit" at 1st/2nd/3rd is a common mistake. Profit is irrelevant as the tournament entry is a sunk cost. You're trying to maximize payout.

You gain 2 parts for 3rd, 1 for 2nd, then another 2 for 1st. Moving from 4th to 3rd is just as valuable as moving from 2nd to 1st. Consequently, the value on 3rd and 1st is big, but 2nd isn't as critical. I would expect more 3rd place payouts than anything else because that's the first critical step.

Further, I never said anything about "crawling" ITM (my using "slid" might have been misleading), but playing bubbles well. That often means shoving any 2 based on the hand ranges. However, if you run something like SNGPT you'll see situations where you're supposed to be insanely tight (or insanely loose, depending on relative stacks and positions).

Also of note, in a 6-man game the gain from 3rd to 2nd is the same as 2nd to 1st, which does change strategy slilghtly as the payout is strictly linear rather than the non-linear 50/30/20 of 9/10-handed.

[BradleyT]

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And about 1st place being heavily affected by luck, it's actually heavily affected by your play - card run evens out in a long run so it's all about the effectiveness of your play in the end.

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About the only person close to having cards evening out is Gramps.

[pifhluk]

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And about 1st place being heavily affected by luck, it's actually heavily affected by your play - card run evens out in a long run so it's all about the effectiveness of your play in the end.

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About the only person close to having cards evening out is Gramps.

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I was just going to say that. You need tens of thousands of sngs to have the cards even out hu.

[donkeykong2]

8k seems like a significant sample size. dunno about the implications though. you cant be playing really bad if you use the sage system.

[dave1mo]

Play less tables.

[runhot]

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8k seems like a significant sample size. dunno about the implications though. you cant be playing really bad if you use the sage system.

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playing really bad? lol no defly not, not sngs anyway.

what is the sage system?

[MatteyA28]

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago when it came to heads up. I knew the sage system but when it came to heads up with >10 BB I was not good. I went over to the Heads up forum and read the stickies and probably the first 2 pages of posts.Then I played about 25-30 $11.50 HU turbos. Levels 3 and 4 of these play very similar to the heads up part at the end of a sng. I single tabled and reviewed each hand history afterwards. I don't consider myself a HU expert, but I definitely learned the basics of the game. Since doing this my 1st to 2nd ratio has gone from 2-3 to 2-1.

[runhot]

wow 2-3 , 2-1 is quite an improvement. when you say reviewing hh's- you specificaly mean looking at your shoves in sngpt right? also how many sngs do you play at a time? and what is the sage system? basic sng strategy? tight early, fold/shove late?

[StregaChess]

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1st place is heavily affected by got lucky (cards or suckouts). Survival (2nd/3rd) is where skill shows up more often.

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So it takes less skill to finish 1st? I'll keep that in mind...