JTs isolation gone bad

[Oink]

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I don't mind overlimping here, but the SB was a definite TAG and I think I'd prefer the LPP to myself with free money in the pot.

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I don't think you're doing that well against his range though and you have no showdown value. JTs flops a lot of good flops though and you have position, so encouraging others to come along here can't be that bad. I raise JTs first in from any position and I also value raise it after a bunch of limpers, but I think there is merit to overlimping this hand. I usually make this raise pre-flop as well though. I think I might be too loose with my isolating range.

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Raising > limping IMO. But I hope its close as I would overlimp T9s.


2 good things can happen by raising:

a) you get it HU vs a fish with dead money in the pot = $$$$$$$$$

b) You get callers and end up in a multiwaypot with a good multiway hand = $$$$$$$$$


But yeah, not having SD value mitigates the profits we earn from isolating fishy.

[thepizzlefosho]

dont raise the turn. You'll blow out the LP if he has nothing, and get 3-bet by the TAG when he has a big hand. Wait until the river, and if you hit the straight then you get 2bets out of each of them since you get to close the action.

I play same as OP, and i think the river is a fold UI. It is very unlikely that the BB is barreling here with AK or TT which are pretty much the only 3-bet hands that you are ahead of right now. Plus add in the fact that the LP could easily have a Q, and I think it is a good fold on the river.

[shane88888]

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dont raise the turn. You'll blow out the LP if he has nothing, and get 3-bet by the TAG when he has a big hand. Wait until the river, and if you hit the straight then you get 2bets out of each of them since you get to close the action.

I play same as OP, and i think the river is a fold UI. It is very unlikely that the BB is barreling here with AK or TT which are pretty much the only 3-bet hands that you are ahead of right now. Plus add in the fact that the LP could easily have a Q, and I think it is a good fold on the river.

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Who says the LP will fold? They don't fold before the river; that's what makes them loose-passive.

And you won't get two bets out of both players when such an obvious draw hits.

I would rather apply maximum pressure here.

[thepizzlefosho]

do you really think you ever fold out a better hand with a turn raise? Do you really think you get called by worse hands with a turn raise? what is the value in raising the turn?

[Wolfram]

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I would rather apply maximum gambool here.

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FYP

[NinaWilliams]

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I would rather apply maximum spew here.

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FYP

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[shane88888]

What hands 3-bet? What hands call and donk river?

[danzasmack]

The only reason you should raise the turn is if you think you get called by AK and if BB might fold KJ/AJ. I'd say a queen but nobody is folding a queen.

w/no read though a turn raise is really just putting $ in that can't be that bad because you have a pair + draw + pot size. But it's 100% not good. So call.

[kidcolin]

I haven't posted in a strat forum in a loooonnnnggggg time and I'm quite rusty, but even I can see that a turn raise is spew. Just because you get a free showdown a good portion of the time doesn't mean you can discount the probability of a 3bet.

Besides, I think you make more bank by calling and popping the river if you hit.

[Wolfram]

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What hands 3-bet?

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AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AQ,QJ(discounted for pf),AcKc/AhKh (sometimes)

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What hands call and donk river?

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Not sure but if villain is the type to flat call and donk then: AA,KK,AQ

I'm sure we didn't mean to gang up on you, but you gotta realize that raising the turn is not +EV. You won't fold out any better hands and you pretty much hate life when you get 3-bet because then his range get narrower and many of your outs are likely dirty.

Your equity in this spot is rarely good enough to raise for pure value, and planning a FSDR is much riskier in a 3way 3bet pot. It just doesn't work often enough to outweigh the 3bet risk. And once in a blue moon you get the surprise raise from UTG.