Live $3/6: bottom set, drawy board, multivay pot

[boltonflats]

You only have ~$400 in a 3/6 live game and flopped a set. My bet is you're behind here, maybe by set and J10, and probably against a flush draw as well, but I say push and start opening your wallet to rebuy even before the others fold or call. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] You'd think a J10 would want to push rather than just flat call, so who knows, maybe a lot of diamonds out there...

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
You'd think a J10 would want to push rather than just flat call, so who knows, maybe a lot of diamonds out there...

[/ QUOTE ]

OP said game is very passive and full of stations. JT can wait for a safe turn and force his opponent's to make a big mistake instead of a small one in calling with sets, 2 pair, or flush draws.

[99killed]

only hand yer dead to is 99. QQ woulda rzd pf. JT has the str8 but u have 10 outs twice to beat that. u need to use fold equity here and shove. u cant fold a set/boat unless u are POSITIVE u are dead to only one out.

what happened? pls tell me u didnt fold.

[PoppaTMan]

Hand Ranges -
MP1: JTo, JTs, Q8s, Q9s, [T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]].
CO: QQ, 99, Q9s, Q8s, QJo, QJs, [T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
Button: JTo, JTs, QQ, 99, Q9s, Q8s, [Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]

The only problem that exists is that two of the players remaining in the hand have the possibility to hold the two hands that have you crushed (99, QQ). However, I believe we can weigh CO's chances of holding these hands lighter due to him being aggressive when hitting.

With the drawiness of the board, shoving becomes the obvious play due to the following:

- No one is folding anything, unless MP1 somehow has air.
- Often: You get a ton of money in good when you are ahead against opponents who are holding each others' outs.
- Occasionally: You are behind, but the overlay you get on your shove is good enough to call with anyway to draw to your boat. So you might as well be the aggressor.
- Very rarely: You're crushed, but god damnit you still have one out!

Since you play with these guys regularly, shoving has additional bonuses besides the obvious immediate +EV. Whenever you widen your range for making value plays like these, it gives you room to make more big bluffs since your range is no longer limited to the nuts. Obviously this becomes less important against the not-so-observant, drooler types. Anyway, I hope you made the correct decision in the hand.

[No1Addict]

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for the replies! I shoved but I was not at all sure this was +EV all things considered.

I thought that the only people who could have me crushed are the UTG+2 guy and the button. As you've noticed, that's the button's MO so he could very well have a set, TJ but draws are also in his range because he is passive.

MP1 I thought had TP2K (He would have raised AQ, QQ or 99 pf because he loves to raise).

CO got me puzzled because he usually was aggresive with good hands post flop but I also knew he wouldn't put his money in without a good hand. I thought he had the draw.

BTN can have anything really at this point. He may be slow playing a straight or have some weird hand like A9 with the A of diamonds (I've seen plays like this from him before).

UTG+2 is the same type as button but he has like a third of my stack so I didn't worry about him much.

So I shove.
UTG+2 calls all in with top two pairs.
MP1 goes all in with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (yes, I misjudged him big time)
CO folds A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I would have bet my house against him holing aces)
BTN calls all in with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]


Before I share results, what hands do you thing should have called here and which were loose calls?

[KurtSF]

UTG+2 is an easy call with his stack. The rest are pretty ill-advised after your b3b.

[PoppaTMan]

Yeah, UTG+2 call was fine. MP1 shove is just so so awful. BTN call *if* you can see the other hands face up (aka no diamond draws) is close, but still -EV. Without complete information, it's just terrible.

Well played by hero!

[No1Addict]

Thanks for the answers. I was a bit unsure when I shoved so I needed some confirmation. It helps one stop being a weak tight idiot.

Conclusion: Turn and river were the T and J of diamonds.