choose my action, deep multiway

[hondoishere]

I don't play games at any where close to that limit but I think Ribbo is right on this, I don't think your starting hand was that good to be raising with. Maybe I'm wrong here but when playing I raise pre-flop to build up the pot when I have statistically a better chance of winning, thus creating larger pots I win and ideally smaller one which I lose. I think that was your first mistake I would call in this situation if I were you and see what the River brings.

[Buzz]

cts - I use words to try to communicate what I think to others. But I don't understand exactly how my brain works.

Perhaps I didn't communicate my thoughts clearly enough for you on your level of thinking.

[ QUOTE ]
anyone telling you preflop is bad... lol

[/ QUOTE ]I understand your words that I have quoted, but they don't make sense to me in the context of what I wrote.

I can guess at what your words mean, but I think we'll communicate better if you'll just tell me what they mean.

What do you mean?:<ul type="square">• Is it impossible, in your opinion, for preflop to be bad?
• Is it too obvious, in your opinion, that preflop is bad?
• Is it too obvious, in your opinion, that preflop is good?
• Should I not try, in your opinion, to understand starting hands in this game?
• Should I not wonder, in your opinion, if preflop is bad?
• Are you merely trying to ridicule my opening paragraph response to Tex?[/list]I can think of more, but it should be clear to you that your written words (quoted above) can have more than one meaning to me.

I'm seriously trying to learn this pot-limit-high-only-Omaha game. Sarcasm, if that is what it was, is wasted on someone who is as naive as I am in terms of trying to understand this game.

Buzz

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
cts - I use words to try to communicate what I think to others. But I don't understand exactly how my brain works.

Perhaps I didn't communicate my thoughts clearly enough for you on your level of thinking.

[ QUOTE ]
anyone telling you preflop is bad... lol

[/ QUOTE ]I understand your words that I have quoted, but they don't make sense to me in the context of what I wrote.

I can guess at what your words mean, but I think we'll communicate better if you'll just tell me what they mean.

What do you mean?:<ul type="square">• Is it impossible, in your opinion, for preflop to be bad?
• Is it too obvious, in your opinion, that preflop is bad?
• Is it too obvious, in your opinion, that preflop is good?
• Should I not try, in your opinion, to understand starting hands in this game?
• Should I not wonder, in your opinion, if preflop is bad?
• Are you merely trying to ridicule my opening paragraph response to Tex?[/list]I can think of more, but it should be clear to you that your written words (quoted above) can have more than one meaning to me.

I'm seriously trying to learn this pot-limit-high-only-Omaha game. Sarcasm, if that is what it was, is wasted on someone who is as naive as I am in terms of trying to understand this game.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]


Buzz I appreciate your analysis of the hand. Now let me give my analysis of CTS' remark. If I had to translate it, it would look something like this "Preflop isn't bad, discussing it is trivial and insignificant, you guys are nits LOL". But I dont think he was directing that at any one person in specific.

This hand is a standard open for me on the button, and it becomes even more so when there's a limper who's deep, and two blinds that are also deep. I'm hoping to build a pot preflop and play it in position multiway. Also, this is a situation of great implied odds, and it's also a hand that I rarely will lose a big pot with, conversely, I've got a much better chance of winning a big pot with it. When I'm on the button with a double suited ace high hand, I feel like not opening would be a leak.

I understand the arguement of one thing leads to another, but to be quite honest with all of you who replied about how this "preflop mistake" put me in a difficult position, I whole heartedly disagree with you, and I'm quite happy with where I am in this hand and I dont think anyone can debate that it's a +EV spot to be in, i.e., getting better than 3-1 with aces up, the nut flush draw, a gutshot, and a baby flush draw with two other players when I'm on the button. Both calling and raising have merit, I was hoping the discussion would evolve into the merits of each, and what I would need to expect to happen to give the greater amount of value to each action, and what drawbacks and advantages each has, which are compunded by the fact my two opponents are nearly as deep as I am in this hand.


I respect the opinions of many of you, especially yours Buzz, so I say with a humble sincerity that if you're not playing this hand in this situation then your preflop standards are likely holding you back and/or your postflop play might not be as strong as it needs to be to play a hand like this 300BB's deep.


It's easy to tell someone "fold pf", regardless of whether it's right or wrong (not dictating that at you Buzz, you have a good response, ty) but the fact of the matter is that type of response doesn't aid in figuring out the correct decision to make on the turn, and that's all I'm interested in.


Btw, CTS, enjoy my monies. Hope it buys you some nice new rims for your car.



-Tex

[Parlay Slow]

talking about pre flop here is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[cts]

I would say more than "preflop is not bad", but that not raising preflop is certainly a mistake here. With deep stacks and a limper I'm building a pot by raising whatever hand I decide to play here, and A265ds is a fine hand on the button facing some donk limper/blinds with deep stacks.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
the fact of the matter is that type of response doesn't aid in figuring out the correct decision to make on the turn, and that's all I'm interested in.

-Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to know that your attitude is one of only taking and never giving. Saves me making any more posts.

[Parlay Slow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the fact of the matter is that type of response doesn't aid in figuring out the correct decision to make on the turn, and that's all I'm interested in.

-Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to know that your attitude is one of only taking and never giving. Saves me making any more posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see anyone having a problem with this.

[wazz]

Can people stop quoting ribbo please, it means I see what he says.

My take on the hand is simple: you're liable to be ahead here some % of the time, and you have a bucketload of equity HU or 3-handed. Your hand is underrepped; you have much more equity HU than 3-handed. This might even be a value-shove if you are beat right now. Lump it in, expect to be called by worse quite a lot of the time, and watch your draw come in when you're not.

[pete fabrizio]

i play it the same way and raise pot on the turn. not just because you might clear up some outs, but b/c you're basically never behind (45% against a bare AA, coinflip against KK or 66). you're a small favorite against AK or 33 but you want to give them a chance to fold. if they have anything else you're raising almost strictly for value. the only reason to smooth-call this turn would be to trap if you're against fish-monkeys who would fold now but may pay you off one way or another on the river.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
Can people stop quoting ribbo please, it means I see what he says.

My take on the hand is simple: you're liable to be ahead here some % of the time, and you have a bucketload of equity HU or 3-handed. Your hand is underrepped; you have much more equity HU than 3-handed. This might even be a value-shove if you are beat right now. Lump it in, expect to be called by worse quite a lot of the time, and watch your draw come in when you're not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wazz forgot to add, "And then go bust several weeks later from a continual overplaying of hands".

It's real easy to say stuff like "shove" without actually appreciating what this leads to. I will tell you what it leads to. It leads to going bust.
Repeated shoving of marginal draws leads to tilt when you lose several big pots. You chase your losses, move up and try to win it all back on one table.
Wazz knows this from experience yet fails to mention it. You are not mutually exclusive to the actions you choose. You influence your actions, which then in turn, influence you back.
Shoving here totally negates any positional advantage you have which is the only thing you have going for you right now.