Biggest lie in the history of mankind

[lucksack]

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Lucksack, Am i wrong in saying that every animal on the planet "thinks" its the most important species?

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I think you are probably close to being right.

[lucksack]

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Define "worth". Therein lies your problem.

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The value of something measured by its qualities. Where's the problem?

[lucksack]

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Thank you for doing absolutely nothing to change my mind about vegetarianism, or vegetarians.


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I'm not surprised at all (because of the earlier thread). Do you think abusing people is wrong (at least you said you think cannibalism is wrong)? Would you agree that your belief in humans as a higher being is religious, because there's no rational basis for it? Or is your opinion mostly based on laws and social norms?

[r3vbr]

Neither animals nor humans have intrinsic value. If humans had intrinsic value, then we would try to have most babies possible, but birth rates are decreasing so we clearly don't value that.

Also, we will do with animals whatever we want because we hold a position of power. Killing humans is considered wrong by simple game theory, if killing humans was considered standard, then the odds that I would be killed would grow. Since I am rational, egotistical and with aim of self-preservation, I will make an effort to make killing humans be outlawed. Same thought process occurs with everyone else in the population.

[r3vbr]

"right" and "wrong" are subjective social constructs.
Saying cannibalism is wrong is the same as saying gravity is wrong.
All our behaviour is pre-determined by the formation of our brains plus external stimuli. Same with a rock that falls from the top of a mountain. If it hits someone on the head would you say it was evil?
If you dont like the current status quo, then you dont like humans. Because we as a species are egotistical, rational, and self preserving. If we are stuck in an island without food, cannibalism is natural. It's waiting to die that's inhuman.

[RoundGuy]

lucksack,

You're reading way too much into my one sentence. I wrote it to point out that what you are saying does nothing to convince us caveman meat-eaters to consider your "cause". It just rehashes the same old holier-than-thou crap I've heard from every other vegetarian I've ever talked to.

He's the difference between us -- I respect your right to believe whatever you want, to eat whatever you want, and to refuse to eat whatever you want. You refuse to give me that same courtesy, and instead attempt to show me how I am somehow inferior to you as a human being because of my beliefs. Fine, but that just confirms my belief that you are an idiot, and not to be taken seriously.

Rather than wasting your time on this nonsensical "cause", you should seriously consider joining the rest of the world and:

Pleasurably
Eat
Tasty
Animals

[lucksack]

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If humans had intrinsic value, then we would try to have most babies possible, but birth rates are decreasing so we clearly don't value that.

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I don't think this is logical at all. Our population is already so big that our future seems to be in danger. Also, as I wrote in OP, I don't think a being that doesn't yet exist has any kind of value/rights (because it doesn't exist), and a being gets them when it starts to exist.

[Sephus]

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Define "worth". Therein lies your problem.

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The value of something measured by its qualities. Where's the problem?

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it's not a very helpful definition. you can basically substitute the word "worth" for "value" back into the definition and it means the same thing.

[Sephus]

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Biggest lie in the history of mankind is that the human species is worth significantly more than other species.

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if people think something is worth more, then it is worth more (to them). there's no such thing as worth independent of desire.

you can say people put value on human life based on false beliefs.

[lucksack]

RoundGuy,

I don't think you're inferior because of your beliefs, I seriously suspect you're a dumb person though, because you are incapable of argumentation and stating WHY you have the opinions that you have (or answering simple questions).

Also, when you think I'm "wasting my time on this nonsensical cause", I'm also looking to discuss this stuff, because I personally think it's an interesting subject (and one that could also tell about how humans, including myself, work psychologically&sociologically), and not only trying to spread veganism, even though I currently support it (but am ready to question my position if shown quality arguments, unlike you).