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#14
09-13-2007, 09:23 AM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
After taking a closer look at the hand I think this is a pretty tough spot. The problem sucks immediately on the flop. The stacks are too deep to play to get AI and the to shallow to play for small ball. I like to play aggressively at passive players since their raises will tend to alert me of something being up. I like the flop bet, I don't think it needs to be any bigger and you could have maybe made it .25 smaller.
On the turn you want to keep this pot semi-small since you won't be loving life if you get AI. You can easily fold if he raises you so a bet is ok, but what are you going to do on the river then? It is a tricky spot. Another option would have been to check the turn. FWIW, I like this better. He probably won't bet middle PP type hands and the only hands he bets that we beat is... On the river he either has a busted FD, a weaker queen, some sort of MP(unlikely),or had you beat the whole way with a flopped set. The only weaker queen hands are KQ, QJ, and maybe QT. I wouldn't expect a passive player to value bet his weak Q's here so I would expect him to bet as a bluff or push a set if you check to him. It would depend on the bet size but I would tend to fold to a river bet as I tend to fold when passive players start betting. 
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#15
09-13-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Bet $3.25 or so. Bet river to. [/ QUOTE ] Why so much? [/ QUOTE ]To setup a river push as well as charge him to draw out on me. Betting $3.25 on this turn would make the pot $10.85 on the river and villain will have $9.15 left...
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#16
09-13-2007, 01:28 PM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
3 to 3.50 on turn, put him in on the river. super standard.
sample hand for example POKERSTARS GAME #11989547979: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/09/10 - 22:46:24 (ET) Table 'Veronika' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: skorpio76 ($33.65 in chips) Seat 2: K Farg ($35.40 in chips) Seat 3: Coordi ($28.30 in chips) Seat 6: Torcida69 ($20.65 in chips) Seat 7: edsall78 ($24.30 in chips) Seat 8: MRGSER ($16.30 in chips) Seat 9: krahs912 ($13.80 in chips) skorpio76: posts small blind $0.10 K Farg: posts big blind $0.25 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Coordi [Kc Ah] Coordi: raises $0.75 to $1 Torcida69: folds NOSNIBUR joins the table at seat #5 edsall78: folds MRGSER: calls $1 krahs912: folds skorpio76: folds K Farg: folds *** FLOP *** [Kd 2c 9c] Coordi: bets $1.75 MRGSER: calls $1.75 *** TURN *** [Kd 2c 9c] [Js] Coordi: bets $3.75 MRGSER: calls $3.75 *** RIVER *** [Kd 2c 9c Js] [7h] Coordi: bets $10 MRGSER: calls $9.80 and is all-in *** SHOW DOWN *** Coordi: shows [Kc Ah] (a pair of Kings) MRGSER: mucks hand Coordi collected $31.35 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $32.95 | Rake $1.60 Board [Kd 2c 9c Js 7h] Seat 1: skorpio76 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: K Farg (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 3: Coordi showed [Kc Ah] and won ($31.35) with a pair of Kings Seat 6: Torcida69 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: edsall78 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: MRGSER mucked [Ks 4s] Seat 9: krahs912 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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#17
09-13-2007, 02:36 PM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bet $3.25 or so. Bet river to. [/ QUOTE ] Why so much? [/ QUOTE ]To setup a river push as well as charge him to draw out on me. Betting $3.25 on this turn would make the pot $10.85 on the river and villain [/ QUOTE ] Why do you think that a river push is profitable against a tight player?
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#18
09-13-2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bet $3.25 or so. Bet river to. [/ QUOTE ] Why so much? [/ QUOTE ]To setup a river push as well as charge him to draw out on me. Betting $3.25 on this turn would make the pot $10.85 on the river and villain [/ QUOTE ] Why do you think that a river push is profitable against a tight player? [/ QUOTE ]30 hands. I am not drawing a conclusion out of this. I run 6/4 at some tables over 100 hands and 30/26 at others over the same sample...he could easily show up with KQ/QJ/JJ/TT here. Also even if he's tight preflop doesn't mean he knows how to play postflop. If I had a read that he's aggro I'd check the river on missed draws so he can push a worse hand but with no read I just go bet/bet/bet because it gets the most value.
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#19
09-13-2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bet $3.25 or so. Bet river to. [/ QUOTE ] Why so much? [/ QUOTE ]To setup a river push as well as charge him to draw out on me. Betting $3.25 on this turn would make the pot $10.85 on the river and villain [/ QUOTE ] Why do you think that a river push is profitable against a tight player? [/ QUOTE ]30 hands. I am not drawing a conclusion out of this. I run 6/4 at some tables over 100 hands and 30/26 at others over the same sample...he could easily show up with KQ/QJ/JJ/TT here. Also even if he's tight preflop doesn't mean he knows how to play postflop. If I had a read that he's aggro I'd check the river on missed draws so he can push a worse hand but with no read I just go bet/bet/bet because it gets the most value. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are overrating his calling hands even if you think is average. I would only go bet-bet-bet with this hand against an opponent that I feel is definitely loose. I really think being committed here is a bit much.
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#20
09-13-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection?
If villain is tight as you suspect I dont think that you have to worry about the three. Bet 3 dollars and reassess if check raised. If villain is tight, his range in this spot is small: AA KK, QQ(unlikely), JJ, KQ, 22, flush draw. would he call flop bet with 66-TT? Is villain trappy or straightforward?
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