Please can I just win one hand 10/20 2-7

[InWithTheBest]

btw i meant take that line and fold river, not just fold when you bet and he raises the turn. I think the proper way to play this spot (assuming you are against a player you play with a reasonable amount of time) is to mix it up between call/stand pat, 3 bet/stand pat (even if he 4 bets), 3 bet/break to a 4 bet and maybe a few call/break. With a bigger distribution to the first two. I like to punish people who raise me here to often and this is a very reasonable spot to do so.
Having a default way to play this common spot against a decent opponent you play with a lot is very very bad.

[iron81]

DD, I know that call/patting round 3, c/f river is exploitable, but how many opponents are going to exploit it? In the small stakes games I play, very few, because people who pat are almost never folding. I dunno about mid-stakes games like 10/20. Very few opponents are going to v-bet worse, so I think folding the river 50% is going to be good.

[HOWMANY]

Yeah I pat and then c/f river. I pretty much always c/c river in this spot and I cannot remember ever winning so I tried folding once. The degen in me hates not seeing a showdown but the 10/20 on Stars just seems so straight forward like every time I play it.

If it was someone I was more familiar with I would be much more likely to take one of the lines IWTB suggested. Against someone I've never played against on my very first hand I have no reason to think he is bluffing and certainly not value betting worse.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
DD, I know that call/patting round 3, c/f river is exploitable, but how many opponents are going to exploit it? In the small stakes games I play, very few, because people who pat are almost never folding. I dunno about mid-stakes games like 10/20. Very few opponents are going to v-bet worse, so I think folding the river 50% is going to be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right I really don't know how this game plays these days.

-DeathDonkey

[MarkGritter]

I think check-folding the river with a 9 is OK (and it's something I should probably do more often) but certainly no more than about half of the time. You should mix it up with some river check-calls, check-raises, and even the occasional donk-bet. Try to make it so that an opponent can't assume that a bet-call/pat line is "safe" for him, once in a while you will have him crushed and other times you will be extracting marginal value when we overplays his hand on the 3rd round and you get him to pat incorrectly.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]

TT I damn well know that if you held this hand and I were the villain you would never break.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

your right, I wouldn't break the 9 vs you and saddly I'd be calling river bets as well because you have it in you to value bet very lightly knowing that I might find a fold - you know how to exploit position very well and thats the only defense. This might not balance itself out in reality but I still think the showdown monkey line is probably best vs you.

Which brings me back to my point in the previous post which Mark disagreed with. My default line is designed to be changed if an opponents tendencies encourage it, going to showdown is player dependent but baring no read I break because the pot is large enough and I am getting an overlay to do so.

to further clarify I actually think Marc and I are essentially saying the same thing just two different ways - Marc said "Against straightforward opponents you can take the draw (assuming you have odds so that folding isn't correct). Against tricky or aggressive players you simply cannot afford to do so.", I say its my default line to break because I assume a player is not tricky until he shows me he is, at which point I don't break.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
DD, I know that call/patting round 3, c/f river is exploitable, but how many opponents are going to exploit it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do I do I do!

[iron81]

Ok, how many?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, how many?

[/ QUOTE ]
just about any good player in this forum would exploit it.

[iron81]

That's pretty much IWTB, DD and maybe you. My gut is telling me 2641Badugi wouldn't. I wouldn't only because I don't like spewing trying to find out. And as far as anyone exploiting me, I don't play against any of you.