It Wouldn't Take Much

[MidGe]

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High priests were immune to deadly diseases?


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An entire universe appeared seemingly out of nothing for no apparent reason?

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Well the universe is undeniably here, thus much more likely to have appeared out of nothing, or, having always been. Much more than the appearance (or lack of it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) of a god out of nothing or having always existed. Not the smallest evidence of that!

[yukoncpa]

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An entire universe appeared seemingly out of nothing for no apparent reason?



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Hi Notready,

You have two conundrums in this single sentence. I find the first - that the universe seemingly appeared out of nothing, to be interesting and it catches my imagination.

But the second - that the universe appeared for no apparent reason - strikes me as odd to even contemplate. I'm assuming from your comment that you believe that there ought to be a reason. I guess I’ve never thought that there needs to be a reason for anything. From your perspective, where you have a sentient creator, I can understand your comment. But just because a universe created itself from nothing, doesn’t in any way point towards sentience, it could just as easily be some weird, non sentient force of nature.

Please demonstrate where I am wrong, because I’d truly like to know. If physicists show that virtual particles do appear from nothing at all, but those same physicists can’t fully explain the process, does this somehow increase the odds that these virtual particles were created from a purposeful designer? Personally, I don’t see it that way.

[KUJustin]

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I think Dawkins sums up your point quite nicely when he states that the universe would be a very different place if there was a personal God.

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I will concede that I haven't heard this thought explained fully, but on the surface it's sounds jaw-droppingly arrogant.

[NotReady]

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I'm assuming from your comment that you believe that there ought to be a reason.


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But if any of Lestat's miracles occurred you would consider that stronger than the appearance of an entire universe?

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If physicists show that virtual particles do appear from nothing at all


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They don't.

[yukoncpa]

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But if any of Lestat's miracles occurred you would consider that stronger than the appearance of an entire universe?


[/ QUOTE ] Yes, because our universe is a given and doesn't in any way point towards a Christian God. Lestat's miracles point towards a specific Christian God.

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If physicists show that virtual particles do appear from nothing at all



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They don't.


[/ QUOTE ] I must be mistaken, I thought there were some theories on the existence of virtual particles.

[ZeeJustin]

I agree with your post Lestat, although I don't like the internet example. Any of the others could possibly single-handedly turn me into a theist depending on the specific details.


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The pope or some other high religious leader invoked a successful mass community prayer to eliminate AIDS or cancer from the earth?

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I find this one particularly funny because...

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Claims were made that John Paul II's papacy spread an unproven belief that condoms do not block the spread of HIV; many critics have blamed this for contributing to AIDS epidemics in Africa and elsewhere in which millions have died.[30] Critics have also claimed that large families are caused by lack of contraception and exacerbate Third World poverty and problems such as street children in South America.

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Pretty ridiculous that atheists accept the implications of the possibilities you posted, but theists can never do the same to the opposite, especially when there are SOOO many.

Of course, I hold the belief that religion causes FAR more pain and suffering than anything else in the world.

[twoblacknines]

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Of course, I hold the belief that humans cause FAR more pain and suffering than anything else in the world.

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fyp.

[vhawk01]

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Of course, I hold the belief that molecules cause FAR more pain and suffering than anything else in the world.

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fyp.

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This is just as pointless as your FYP, DUCY?

[MidGe]

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Of course, I hold the belief that humans cause FAR more pain and suffering than anything else in the world.

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fyp.

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Incorrect! Eliminate humans entirely and animals would still be suffering. It is the designer fault, you moran! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ZeeJustin]

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Of course, I hold the belief that humans cause FAR more pain and suffering than anything else in the world.

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fyp.

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Isn't that only more evidence that there is no god?