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#12
08-29-2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
[ QUOTE ]
You are first to act with a marginal hand. It will almost always be a marginal hand against 3-4 people post-flop, unless you flop a set. You have the worst possible position; you are likely to make mistakes much larger than your ~6% preflop equity edge. The pot becomes bigger, so everybody is correct in peeling the flop. You will make a mistake playing this hand. If you raise preflop, you practically must bet the flop. You can not check raise, and even if you could the pot is bigger so it matters less. If you keep the pot smaller by giving up a little edge, you may do better post-flop. Also, you still have the option of check raising, and of seeing the action before you. You are basically eliminating your positional disadvantage on the flop by blind-checking. [/ QUOTE ] Basically you don't know any of this. I disagree strongly with your opinion that this hand will be easier to play if you just check preflop. [ QUOTE ] I think realizable equity is an important concept. This is similar to saying pocket deuces have an edge over, say, AKs preflop; this is true, but I'll take AKs any day, especially OOP. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, 22 and 99 here are the same, come on.. this is just stupid. 
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#13
08-29-2007, 04:56 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, 22 and 99 here are the same, come on.. this is just stupid. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps instead of repeating "it's stupid", you could try to think about it and put together some counter-argument with some numbers, or something similar. I think you over-estimate your huge preflop equity edge.
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#14
08-29-2007, 05:03 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yeah, 22 and 99 here are the same, come on.. this is just stupid. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps instead of repeating "it's stupid", you could try to think about it and put together some counter-argument with some numbers, or something similar. I think you over-estimate your huge preflop equity edge. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word repeat. Once you stop posting stupid stuff I'll stop using the word. Hint, I just repeated it.
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#16
08-29-2007, 05:31 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
[ QUOTE ]
If I took a guess we have an equity in the ranges of 30-40% which equals 0.1-0.3 SB. [/ QUOTE ] How do you figure that? If we have 30% equity four ways we gain 0.2SB on our raise, and if it's 40% it's 0.6SB. Also let's not forget that the BB folded which must increase our equity too. That's a pretty big gain just for clicking the raise button. Sure it's not going to be a breeze to play postflop but you can't pass on this preflop edge IMO.
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#18
08-29-2007, 05:51 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
[ QUOTE ]
ok we're going to stop calling each other stupid and stuff kthx [/ QUOTE ] Not "we" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But my thoughts exactly. Anyway, fine. I'm completely open to the idea that the edge of a preflop raise is larger than the edge gained by keeping the pot smaller with a somewhat better position. I'm just wondering how much larger it is. I think it's very close. Not sure. I like to make things easier for myself with less variance, perhaps at the cost of a small expected gain?
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#19
08-29-2007, 05:58 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
LOL, I didn't mean to call HoneyBadger anything. I just wanted to point out that comparing our eq. with 22 hu against AKs with our eq. with 99 in a 4-way field is erh not really the best way to think about this situation imho. Sorry if that offended anyone mr. moderator and HB.
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#20
08-29-2007, 06:00 PM
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Re: I thought this was supposed to be a good flop...
[ QUOTE ]
LOL, I didn't mean to call HoneyBadger anything. I just wanted to point out that comparing our eq. with 22 hu against AKs with our eq. with 99 in a 4-way field is erh not really the best way to think about this situation imho. Sorry if that offended anyone mr. moderator and HB. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't mean it that way; I said the situation was similar. Not equal. As in, we also have an edge there, but it will be very difficult not to make larger mistakes later in the hand. With those deuces either we call with a 2 outer, or fold the best hand, both of which are fairly large mistakes. (possibly larger than our original edge, even if we make them only 50/50; therefore, I would not like to play deuces heads-up out-of-position)
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