God I hate AQ

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

I'm with hamnegger... shove em all in and pray.

[bambam16]

I'm folding to the RR preflop as well, because as the title suggests, I hate AQ too.

But looking at the flop, the pf reraiser is betting 18k into a 32k? pot. Into you and a villian 1 who can bust him? Right now I really can't find a fold and feel like I have to push this. I wish we had reads on villian 1...anyways, I would think unless villian 1 behind you woke up with TT, AK, or a spade draw, he's going to fold. As played I think I close my eyes and shove.

[registrar]

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But looking at the flop, the pf reraiser is betting 18k into a 32k? pot.

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What's so strange about this? What are you expecting him to do with AK and AA? And if he has JJ-KK why are we in such a hurry to push him off the hand?

[JammyDodga]

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I think a flat call is OK here, I think KK, QQ are likely to slow down on the turn (especially if a spade hits), where-as AK and AA are definitely betting.

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Investing nearly half of my remaining stack here to see if Villain slows down on the turn does not seem like a good idea for me ...

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Damnit, mis-read the OP again, thought hero had 100k as well.

I think this makes it even more of a fold pre-flop, as you are going to be committing yourself on the flop without much idea of where you are.

As played, with hero's stack, this is a tough spot, but I'm not sure i'm folding.

Lets try and work this out...

I'd say his range is probably QQ+, AK+

With two aces and a queen already out there, villian could have
QQ - 3 hands
KK - 6 hands
AA - 1 hand
AK - 8 hands

so there's 9 which we beat and 9 which beat us, given the money in the pot, this is a call/raise.

I think that the fact that the raiser was SB, means we can probably discount QQ a bit, as well as AK offsuit, neither of these hands want to be OOP in a muti-way pot.

So if we discount the above to 2 for QQ, and 5 for AK, it becomes 8 to 6.


The most important question howver, is what his flop bet means...

Obvioulsy, AA and AK are still options, however 18k is a bit small cosidering its a multi-way pot with two spades. Although AA or AK of spades could do this, I'd certainly bet a bit more here with AK with no spades, so I think we can reduce the chance of AK even further, maybe to 4.

I think QQ probably checks on this flop, so we can probably exclude that.

BUT I do think KK could definitely bet here.

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...and how often do we estimate Villain to make a weak c-bet on THIS flop against two opponents with KK?

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How would you expect him to play KK? How many players have you seen who are 100% willing to check/fold KK on an Ace high flop? Many will take another dispairing stab at the pot, even though they know they are probably beaten, and lay it down to a re-raise.

The other thing is the size of the bet, 18k is a bit small cosidering its a multi-way pot with two spades. Although AA or AK of spaded could do this, I'd certainly bet a bit more here with AK with no spades.

So excluding the queens, and one AK, we are down to 6 against 5, with the money in the pot, and the fact that we've got 3 outs (queens) if he's got AK, I think we should be playing this hand.

[KidSensation]

The way this hand was played I think you have to get it all in there post-flop. Villian 1's line seems like a high PP that you outflopped (however, his lead out on flop is slightly confusing), possibly QQ or KK. I get it in here and pray...

[JammyDodga]

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But looking at the flop, the pf reraiser is betting 18k into a 32k? pot.

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What's so strange about this? What are you expecting him to do with AK and AA? And if he has JJ-KK why are we in such a hurry to push him off the hand?

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Very good point, I think if you are going to play this, you want to be calling to try and get some more chips out of worse hands.

You also might get the 3rd player to stick around as well, and unless he's hit a set of 10s, I'm pretty confident you are ahead of him at least.

[bambam16]

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But looking at the flop, the pf reraiser is betting 18k into a 32k? pot.

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What's so strange about this? What are you expecting him to do with AK and AA? And if he has JJ-KK why are we in such a hurry to push him off the hand?

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I didn't necessarily think it was strange for him to bet 18k into 32k - the "?" was after the 32k b/c I did a quick calculation on the pot size.

But your comment is why I find it so hard to figure out what to do. I think the way this flop came out we can't fold now. So it's between a call and push.

Calling potentially gives us the ability to extract more value from JJ-KK and maybe get more in the pot from villian 1. Raising I think allows both villians to play more perfectly against us. So maybe I go back on what I said earlier and just call? I don't know, I'm kind of thinking out loud here.

[KidSensation]

Are you really going to be able to get more value out of KK-JJ when you just call here? Would someone who's actually paying attention think that you would call off over a third of your stack with a flush draw? I don't think calling here is a good option with a player still to act behind...I shove, since the pot is already a good size. I don't need anymore action.

[registrar]

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Are you really going to be able to get more value out of KK-JJ when you just call here? Would someone who's actually paying attention think that you would call off over a third of your stack with a flush draw? I don't think calling here is a good option with a player still to act behind...I shove, since the pot is already a good size. I don't need anymore action.

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Heads up, yes. Without closing the action, and having [censored] the hand so badly already, I think we can call and fold if we see a push and a call behind.

[Sherman]

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I'm folding to the rr pre-flop.

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I do too.