In mid pos, looking to get my stack in.

[cooker3]

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You can shove now and maybe stack one guy, or call and c/r the turn to probably stack two guys. I know which option I like better.

Shoving this flop is really pretty horrible.

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Lol @ shoving with the 2nd nuts being really horrible

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Lol @ not reading.

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Oh I read it and it's still funny

[Sherman]

So I'm really new to cash games, but some of the advice in here has to be terrible.

WTF why on earth would we shove? We have the 2nd nuts. What draws are we worried about? We basically have the deck as crippled as we can get it against two opponents.

So I'll ask again...why are we worried about giving a free card? Who cares? Are we really worried about people hitting two outers?

Anyhow, I think the best play is to make another small re-raise on this flop...one that keeps in both the flush draws and over-pairs. Then put the rest in on the turn.

If you have to min-raise the flop, fine. Whatever...we don't really care if that is the best way to keep them in the pot...then min-raise. Normally I'd never min-raise, but we want to get them committed and they are going to be getting way too good of odds to fold a min-raise.


Anyhow, keep betting on the flop. We'd hate to see and A or K come on the turn that costs us action against 77,88,99, w/e. So keep putting money in.

Sherman

[cooker3]

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So I'm really new to cash games, but some of the advice in here has to be terrible.

WTF why on earth would we shove? We have the 2nd nuts. What draws are we worried about? We basically have the deck as crippled as we can get it against two opponents.

So I'll ask again...why are we worried about giving a free card? Who cares? Are we really worried about people hitting two outers?

Anyhow, I think the best play is to make another small re-raise on this flop...one that keeps in both the flush draws and over-pairs. Then put the rest in on the turn.

If you have to min-raise the flop, fine. Whatever...we don't really care if that is the best way to keep them in the pot...then min-raise. Normally I'd never min-raise, but we want to get them committed and they are going to be getting way too good of odds to fold a min-raise.


Anyhow, keep betting on the flop. We'd hate to see and A or K come on the turn that costs us action against 77,88,99, w/e. So keep putting money in.

Sherman

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Umn, you managed to completely disagree at the end with what you said in the beginning.
The reason you shove is not because you scared of being sucked out, that would be stupid. It because of exactly what you said, people who have sevens, eights, nines etc will call because they have an overpair!!!!
If a or k comes then your action is killed.

Also, deception, a shove doesn't look like a boat, while min raising just absolutely telegraphs your hand

[C4LL4W4Y]

the only way i shove is if i have a god awful image. the call is good here, most turns both villains are going to be getting it in.

[Hail Eris]

No one is calling you with 88 here even at 10NL when you shove over BB's coldcall. Your hand looks exactly like a big pair and you're getting action only from a 3.

Nevermind the facts that often they're both drawing because there is a flush draw and an OESD, that a 336 board is often getting bluff raised, and that the pot is already so huge on the flop when you just call that any further betting commits either villain.

[DaycareInferno]

i think i'm going to cry.

[Sherman]

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So I'm really new to cash games, but some of the advice in here has to be terrible.

WTF why on earth would we shove? We have the 2nd nuts. What draws are we worried about? We basically have the deck as crippled as we can get it against two opponents.

So I'll ask again...why are we worried about giving a free card? Who cares? Are we really worried about people hitting two outers?

Anyhow, I think the best play is to make another small re-raise on this flop...one that keeps in both the flush draws and over-pairs. Then put the rest in on the turn.

If you have to min-raise the flop, fine. Whatever...we don't really care if that is the best way to keep them in the pot...then min-raise. Normally I'd never min-raise, but we want to get them committed and they are going to be getting way too good of odds to fold a min-raise.


Anyhow, keep betting on the flop. We'd hate to see and A or K come on the turn that costs us action against 77,88,99, w/e. So keep putting money in.

Sherman

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Umn, you managed to completely disagree at the end with what you said in the beginning.
The reason you shove is not because you scared of being sucked out, that would be stupid. It because of exactly what you said, people who have sevens, eights, nines etc will call because they have an overpair!!!!
If a or k comes then your action is killed.

Also, deception, a shove doesn't look like a boat, while min raising just absolutely telegraphs your hand

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But that is no reason to shove. At least IMO. But this is really dependent on your opponents. If they are the type who can't ever fold an overpair (no matter how big) then shove away. If they are the type who are just going to keep calling when they see the odds they are getting, min-raise and shove the turn. They are going to call both bets.

So it really just depends on your opponents in terms of what is the most +EV.

The problem with shoving is that it might fold out the flush draw and even some overpairs. We'd like both to call. You have to play against villains' complete range...not just the cards you'd like them to have.

[DaycareInferno]

shoving is a small raise

[Sherman]

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shoving is a small raise

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It's around the size of the current pot. But yes they will be getting good pot odds. I am just saying that if we shove, they might fold the flop. They are going to be getting redic odds, but they still might fold. They never fold to a min-raise on the flop even if it is sooooo obvious that we are getting it in on the turn. And they aren't folding there either.

W/E. As I said before, this is more about knowing your opponents than anything else. I mean, no decent player is folding any hand they already called/raised with to a shove, but we have no idea if these two will fold getting great odds or not.

Edit: I probably play too many tournaments and have seen too many players make laydowns after committing 75% of their stack.

[C4LL4W4Y]

bleh it's opponent dependent...it's a shove if your opponents will call light on this board (which at 10nl is fairly common).