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#11
08-21-2007, 12:01 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible .. [/ QUOTE ] Hrmmm, I call it after 4 limpers... [ QUOTE ] It's not obvious to me that calling the flop is bad here [/ QUOTE ] I can't believe i'm going to say it, but I tend to agree. [/ QUOTE ] hrmmmm ... yes ... i just did some stoving ... for various players ... came back with about about a few less points less the avg field member ... so yeah - not so bad (i did come back to say it was close) ... but would really need some passive types that payoff to make this worth playing IMO though ... I still think not raising the flop, in a game where the avg guy is 30-40 vpip (as op says), is pretty bad (those guys will call with a whole-lotta-nothing) <font color="red">EDIT</font> CR: op says guys are like 30-40 vpip ... that would play close to live yes - in a game that's features much tighter players I'm not raising ... but not when the players are of this type 
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#12
08-21-2007, 12:20 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
* Grunch *
What are the limits here? pre-flop: Fold. Am I missing something? Unless this is the loosest table around, and even then, fold. flop: You stepped in s**t. I agree with the call to keep players in. Raising would put you heads up on a board where you are only beat by JJ, J5, K5, A5. Turn: Re-Raise. River: Call. But I'm guessing you are beat now.
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#13
08-21-2007, 12:37 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
Pf is at worst a small mistake, flop call is actually correct in a lot of games. There are ZERO draws on this board, and nothing is better than a 3 outer against you (the case 5), but tons of unpaired hands are going to pay for the chance to draw to runners unless you blow them out with a raise.
Turn/river I call down but hate it.
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#14
08-21-2007, 02:21 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
pf good, flop good, fold turn.
"Turn: Re-Raise." - lol
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#16
08-21-2007, 02:45 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
Preflop is fine, with that many callers any two cards from the button are good.
Flop sucks in my opinion. Turn is wishful thinking and a pretty clear fold with the reraise unless you are playing against me in which case you will hit your one outer on the river.
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#17
08-21-2007, 03:53 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
PF call seems marginal, but if you know how to play it, it can show a profit.
I think the flopcall is fine. What other hands are we afraid of here? Small chance we are behind, big chance we're way ahead. Someone with a worse kicker has 3 outs, someone with the J has 2 and someone with two cards has to hit a runner runner fullhouse with an overcard. So at most we are letting someone draw to 3 outs. Wich gives up aprox 1 sb (12% of 10,8sb) with the chance of winning between 1 and 4 more. (please tell me if this reasoning is way of.) I think this is worth the tradeoff. If I was sure I could get a few coldcalls I'd raise, but this usually isn't the case at my tables. Turncard sucks and I think this is a b-f.
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#18
08-21-2007, 03:56 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
on a J55 rainbow flop you're not going to see a raise coldcalled by much unless you are playing against the most heavenly of uberdonks. Even fish want some kind of reason to call sometimes, and "it's just one bet" is one that will work on this board.
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#20
08-21-2007, 02:35 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible .. [/ QUOTE ] Hrmmm, I call it after 4 limpers... [/ QUOTE ] OK ... so - i've done some more stoving ... and if this you call this after 4loose limpers then your range is something like this all show about the same value (which is 2-3 points below the field average) 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J2s+,T2s+,92s+,82s+,72s+,62s+,5 2s+,42s+,32s,A2o+,K9o+,Q9o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,75 o+,64o+,54o that's over 60% ... there is no way you could see a profit playing this many hands there are a number of people here that have said ... if you are better than you opponents then Q4s could see a profit ... i seriously doubt that there are many players that are 'that' much 'better' then their competition <font color="red">edit</font> i'll play some junk suite hands ... but i only play them in one particular suite
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