400NL - Please school me on the river c/r bluff

[Mossberg]

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spew if u shove here, AK will call, Donky w MP will call. 45 Calls, tbh we dont represent enough strength due to the check on the flop, only viable hand we can have here is AK/KQ?


[/ QUOTE ]

did you even read OP? A 35/25 is raising me preflop with AK here like always. Also, what is "Donky with MP will call"? I am HU on the river against a LAG.

[Unknown Soldier]

problem is that your line doesnt make sense.

[Colombo]

The fact that button only called the turn with SB to act behind him leads me to believe that he may have a strong hand and is trying to extract value from SB overcalling.

Anyway, I think call>shove on this river. Many non-K hands are just gonna check and get to free showdown. So basically he has a K or air, and I don't think a K is gonna b/f this river ip.

[fearless2k]

My bad,
Lags can make Calls w Middle pairs too u know.

[fearless2k]

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problem is that your line doesnt make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is what i was trying to say in my crude way i guess, id opt to use this line (nt make sense line) w the Nuts, get to showdown, then use it as bluffs after they have seen me w monsters in same spots...

[Nielsio]

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wowwww 100% spew if you did this

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No I did not pull the trigger. The point of this thread was to get some insight into why or why not to c/r bluff here - if you don't think it's a good spot, then please atleast give a brief explanation of why, rather than just a "wowwww, spew".

[/ QUOTE ]


There are no draws on the turn and villain checked behind on the flop. So it's very unlikely for him to have whiffed overs like AT. We would expect him to bet the flop ip or to check the river behind.

If he has a mpp then he is also very likely to check the river behind. It doesn't make sense for villain to call the turn thinking he might be good with 55 and then suddenly bet the river after nothing has changed and you've shown weakness.

Villain's most likely range is a K or a monster like 4x or better. It could be a weak K like KT.

Now, you bet the turn and check-raise the river (if that's what you would do); 4x and monsters are most definitely in his range, so c/r makes no sense whatsoever. You would simply bet the river again and hope to not get raised.

So what are you repping? You are repping almost precisely 77. And even that you aren't repping it very well. Why no flop bet? Why a turn-bet when the K comes?

Laggy players tend to have a pretty good feel for where other players are. Especially tight/predictable players.

So what this hand comes down to.. and it's something that a lot of FPS hands I've seen lately on ssnl and msnl.. is that you are making a play in the hopes that villain has some part of his potential range but it isn't more than a blind guessing game and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.


Or: you rep nothing and it's unlikely for villain to have worse than Kx so c/r the river is 100% spew.

[FooSH]

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[ QUOTE ]
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wowwww 100% spew if you did this

[/ QUOTE ]


No I did not pull the trigger. The point of this thread was to get some insight into why or why not to c/r bluff here - if you don't think it's a good spot, then please atleast give a brief explanation of why, rather than just a "wowwww, spew".

[/ QUOTE ]


There are no draws on the turn and villain checked behind on the flop. So it's very unlikely for him to have whiffed overs like AT. We would expect him to bet the flop ip or to check the river behind.

If he has a mpp then he is also very likely to check the river behind. It doesn't make sense for villain to call the turn thinking he might be good with 55 and then suddenly bet the river after nothing has changed and you've shown weakness.

Villain's most likely range is a K or a monster like 4x or better. It could be a weak K like KT.

Now, you bet the turn and check-raise the river (if that's what you would do); 4x and monsters are most definitely in his range, so c/r makes no sense whatsoever. You would simply bet the river again and hope to not get raised.

So what are you repping? You are repping almost precisely 77. And even that you aren't repping it very well. Why no flop bet? Why a turn-bet when the K comes?

Laggy players tend to have a pretty good feel for where other players are. Especially tight/predictable players.

So what this hand comes down to.. and it's something that a lot of FPS hands I've seen lately on ssnl and msnl.. is that you are making a play in the hopes that villain has some part of his potential range but it isn't more than a blind guessing game and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.


Or: you rep nothing and it's unlikely for villain to have worse than Kx so c/r the river is 100% spew.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree, good lags know their image and know that good tighter players may be looking for check raise opportunities, they are also capable of turning weak made hands into bluffs if they detect weakness.

Not so good lags will see the rude display of strength from a tight player and fold a lot.

Really bad lags are the only ones to worry about as there the only ones calling with Kx.

No way does a lag go 2 streets without raising/betting tripps+, especially multiway with a draw out.

I relly don't think it matters what we're repping, if you've been playing tight without much history, theres no way for him to know how we play our monsters. He would have to have seen some previous crazyness, or be crazy himself, to even think of calling the river light.

[EgoSlasher]

Just barrel again if you think he's calling that turn light. Imo this isn't a spot for a river crai.

[catcher193]

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Anyway, I think call>shove on this river. Many non-K hands are just gonna check and get to free showdown. So basically he has a K or air, and I don't think a K is gonna b/f this river ip.

[/ QUOTE ]
agree, except I think he still folds about half of the time he is betting thise river for value.

[BadMoFu]

I was the villian right?

Edit: PM me your party SN pls