The Power of Nightmares.

[Kaj]

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Ah, the moral authority of the United States in not contrived and baseless. I'll tell you why.

Here's a challenge that will illustrate.

Pick a metric about quality of life or standard of living.

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This is not a logical metric of moral authority.

[Kaj]

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Ah, the moral authority of the United States in not contrived and baseless. I'll tell you why.

Here's a challenge that will illustrate.

Pick a metric about quality of life or standard of living. You will find that in a little over 200 years of history, the US has produced a society which has far eclipsed any accomplishment in those areas of any other nation or civilization in the history or the world. Ever.

The belief in American exceptionalism is based in results. Concrete, undeniable, irrefutable fact. To not believe in American exceptionalism is to deny history.

This is how the moral authority of the US has been established. This is also why no other force in history has been able to compete with it.

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Flawed, it assumes that because people who lived in America in the past made decisions that lead to dominance that the decisions made by current, or very recent individuals follow the same potential.

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It also assumes that those who made decisions that led to dominance made the right moral decisions -- as if wealth (or even overt plundering) makes right.

[pokerbobo]

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That may be, but if what they say is true, the bashing seems justified. In the end of part three, they basically say that sporadic terrorism from a greatly overestimated fringe group of radical Islam is not a threat to the health of any country as a whole , say the way that climate change is, and politicians are exaggerating the lesser dangers to grow and maintain power while ignoring the imminent ones. I agree with this, and it seems like amongst all the other Bush-bashing in the media, some of these startling facts are not discussed AT ALL, even though it would be the most credible avenue of dissent.

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What happened to our economy after 9-11? I would guess if they did something like that every few months, our country would suffer vast economic damage. (i guess how you define "sporadic" may be different than me, but 3-4 attacks per year would pretty much be my definition.) I realize most attacks are not of that scale, but to think countries can survive "sporadic" events that include multi billion dollar buildings being destroyed, tens of thousands of jobs being lost instantly, thousands dead in a matter of minutes, and the "uncertainty" of the markets after events like 9-11 is just plain dumb. America bounced back pretty quick after 9-11, but the public has a short memory. If we had gone into a 8-10 year depression after 9-11, a lot of people would still be very pissed off, and likely have different views on American policy.

Based on some muslims I have heard, the "greatly overestimated" numbers of terrorists is complete crap. I tend to beleive the people who have escaped the middle east more than the psuedo-intellectuals who have never been there.

[zasterguava]

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The biggest problem that I have with this film is its drawing of a moral equivalency between Islamists and Neo-Conservatives.

It is a very sublte assumption, but it's there. It is, in my mind, also contrived and baseless.

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Is it more or less "contrived and baseless", in your opinion, than the assertion of unilateral moral authority by the U.S.?

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They do not draw any "moral equivalency" between Islamists and neo-cons. In fact, if you research the history of the phrase "moral equivalency" it was developed by those with a neo-con persuasion to attack the credibility of anyone who criticises foriegn policy. e.g

[Exsubmariner]

Oh yes, it is.

An unjust society could never even come close to what we have achieved.

You don't like it, go live in Cuba.

[Exsubmariner]

Um,
That wealth was acquired after a world war where this country saved Europe and Africa from the Nazi's and The Pacific from the Empire of Japan. I suppose you don't think that fighting against enemies who created concentration camps and killed vast numbers of civilians was a morally right decision? Tisk tisk.

[neverforgetlol]

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Oh yes, it is.

An unjust society could never even come close to what we have achieved.

You don't like it, go live in Cuba.

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don't forget some sort of patriotic theme music featuring a crying eagle

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Um,
That wealth was acquired after a world war where this country saved Europe and Africa from the Nazi's and The Pacific from the Empire of Japan. I suppose you don't think that fighting against enemies who created concentration camps and killed vast numbers of civilians was a morally right decision? Tisk tisk.

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Dropping an atom bomb on thousands of innocent civilians is clearly ok, I'm sure.

[Exsubmariner]

The Rape of Nanking

The Holocaust

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Dropping an atom bomb on thousands of innocent civilians is clearly ok, I'm sure.

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Yes, but you will never be able to understand why.

This film might give you a vague notion, however. Pay careful attention.

[Kaj]

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Um,
That wealth was acquired after a world war where this country saved Europe and Africa from the Nazi's and The Pacific from the Empire of Japan. I suppose you don't think that fighting against enemies who created concentration camps and killed vast numbers of civilians was a morally right decision? Tisk tisk.

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Nice straw man. Way to really tear into it.

[Kaj]

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Oh yes, it is.

An unjust society could never even come close to what we have achieved.

You don't like it, go live in Cuba.

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Try a logical argument and maybe there will be a point to debate.