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#11
08-14-2007, 09:06 PM
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Re: Flopped 8s full, then I freeze up
[ QUOTE ]
Instashove until he makes his little comment. That scares me a bit. [/ QUOTE ] Me too. I find myself inadvertently pulling this cheap little parlor trick out every once in a while too (kind of like Mike at the beginning of Rounders... "I don't think you have the spades.") He said it just as I was considering a raise and wondering if he could have A8. That's much of what locked me up a bit. Doh! 
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#13
08-14-2007, 09:14 PM
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Re: Flopped 8s full, then I freeze up
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Instashove until he makes his little comment. That scares me a bit. [/ QUOTE ] Me too. I find myself inadvertently pulling this cheap little parlor trick out every once in a while too (kind of like Mike at the beginning of Rounders... "I don't think you have the spades.") He said it just as I was considering a raise and wondering if he could have A8. That's much of what locked me up a bit. Doh! [/ QUOTE ] you have a FULL HOUSE!!!!!!!!!! tells go out the window!
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#14
08-15-2007, 09:42 AM
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Re: Flopped 8s full, then I freeze up
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 1/2 NL live game. Villain just sat down a few hands ago. Only read is he showed down A6o in a three-way pot with top pair, which he check-called to the river. Five-way limped to me in the BB with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check. (Pot $10) Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Checks around. Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I bet $10, UTG villain calls, middle-position limper calls. (Pot $40) River: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I bet $25, UTG raises to $50. MP folds. I think a while, villain goes "Well I guess you don't have the eight." Villain has about $200 behind, I cover. Thoughts on river action? [/ QUOTE ] Instashove until he makes his little comment. That scares me a bit. Whenever people say 'guess you don't have x' that means A LOT that they have whatever beats x. If you have a flush on a paired board and the guy says "i don't think you got the flush, i'm all in" fold fold fold fold. Also I would have led 40 on river, b/c an ace is not folding. [/ QUOTE ] hmm, you know what, maybe I wasn't considering the villians table talk enough. Think about what his statement means. "Well I guess you don't have the eight."... It's sort of interesting the use of the word "the" rather than "an". Is this really exactly what he said? It's a stretch, but "the" kinda indicates he has an 8 since how else could he know there is only "one" left. But maybe i'm reading too much into it. But even putting that aside, why would he say that? Either he has a boat and is sad you don't have an 8 or he has some ace or something and is glad you don't have an 8. Seems unlikely he would say this sort of thing with simple trip 8's... If that's the case, maybe a shove isn't so +EV, since he will only call if you are beat (assuming he wouldn't call with less than trips here, which I don't know if you can assume that or not).
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#15
08-15-2007, 09:47 AM
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Re: Flopped 8s full, then I freeze up
push it in, you don't mess about with boats unless the board is 2-paired, and you got the under. And even then it's gotta be to save an awful lot behind.
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#16
08-15-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: Flopped 8s full, then I freeze up
[ QUOTE ]
hmm, you know what, maybe I wasn't considering the villians table talk enough. Think about what his statement means. "Well I guess you don't have the eight."... It's sort of interesting the use of the word "the" rather than "an". Is this really exactly what he said? It's a stretch, but "the" kinda indicates he has an 8 since how else could he know there is only "one" left. But maybe i'm reading too much into it. But even putting that aside, why would he say that? Either he has a boat and is sad you don't have an 8 or he has some ace or something and is glad you don't have an 8. Seems unlikely he would say this sort of thing with simple trip 8's... If that's the case, maybe a shove isn't so +EV, since he will only call if you are beat (assuming he wouldn't call with less than trips here, which I don't know if you can assume that or not). [/ QUOTE ] I don't think the use of the article 'the' is the main concern. I hear people say that a lot, even on a board of like AT743, they'll say "got the ace?" My concern is what he's telling us. He's saying that trip 8s beat his hand. Why would he say this? Either because they do, or because he wants to underrepresent his hand to get you to call/raise with a weaker hand. So which is it? Hard to say without being there generally. Some people make these comments all the time and are always telling the truth: "got a weak hand, but I'll call"; "I'll check my pair", etc. Some people are never telling the truth. Absent a read on what level this guy is on, look at the action and the river minraise. The chances that he's minraising a good, not great, hand are small. Now, sure, there are going to be plenty of times where you call and he has AQ or 8x and you're pissed you didn't raise, but I think he'll show you AA, A8 or Q8 quite a bit here, and every so often QQ.
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#17
08-15-2007, 10:38 PM
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Re: Flopped 8s full, then I freeze up
[ QUOTE ]
Absent a read on what level this guy is on, look at the action and the river minraise. The chances that he's minraising a good, not great, hand are small. Now, sure, there are going to be plenty of times where you call and he has AQ or 8x and you're pissed you didn't raise, but I think he'll show you AA, A8 or Q8 quite a bit here, and every so often QQ. [/ QUOTE ] My thoughts too. I didn't discount AA from his range given a few people like to limp/raise those in aggressive games with early position. It just seemed so obvious to me that I had *at least* an eight given I was in the bb, but looking at peoples' comments and the way the hand played out, it probably did look more like a weak ace from his perspective. For those who are curious, I just called and he showed J8o (?!?!?) and when I grumbled and flipped my hand he announced a chop. Heh. Also given the rest of his play that night I suspect he would have gone to the felt with it. Doh! Thanks again for all the responses. I haven't had much luck with hand posting in the small stakes area - seems there's not much interest in live games there.
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