A live hand.

[James.]

bob t,

hope things are well. nice to see you post a hand. been a while.

pf in the HJ; what's your reason for not popping? i assume you have a pretty good explanation as it seems to be a standard raise. maybe if it's the tightest of all tight passives or the limp reraisingest of all limp reraisers i could see it. even then it would usually be more profitable to raise if you can steal his pot when he has an UI big cards or to glean info as to what range you are up against if he commonly LRR's.

on the flop, if it was one small bet smaller i would prefer a call. once it hits 7sb i prefer a raise. if we are going to continue, for the obvious reasons i think it's the best route at that kind of table.

turn is standard.

on the river i'm 3betting against most players, passive or aggressive. i'm 3betting against aggros because they are raising a wider range. i assume this guy is more on the passive side based on your table read. for that reason i'm even more inclined to 3bet.

alot of aggressive players raise a wider range, but won't necessarily call the 3bet with a wider range. a passive player will raise a tighter range but call a 3bet with a wider range. he will also rarely 4bet a hand that is less than the stones, as alot of passives(esp. tight passives) have MUBS. his most likely hand by FAR is trips. sure a full house like 99922 is possible, but i still think most two pair hands will give more action on the flop with the straight draw out. if they aren't giving more action on the flop with two pair, i highly doubt they are 4betting an underfull(especially given your preflop play). so i think we are 4bet rarely.

personally i would 3bet and feel pretty good about it. i think 4 big bets on the turn and river seem about right given the strength of our hand and the action up to this point. as i said, trips seem to be by far the most likely hand and you need to extract value from this holding since it's never folding.

edit to say: damn, i just realized it's the BB who bet/called the flop and then checkraised the river. if he wouldn't bet the flop with less than top pair it changes my analysis.

[Bob T.]

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hope things are well. nice to see you post a hand. been a while.


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I've been sick, so I haven't played as much, and also working on my NL game. It seems that the interesting hands that I have come accross have been in NL.

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pf in the HJ; what's your reason for not popping? i assume you have a pretty good explanation as it seems to be a standard raise.

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The limper in the hand, seemed to make a lot of tactical checkraises, and I didn't want the initiative, in a shorthanded pot against him, because I would almost certainly get checkraised on the flop, and then I would have to make some hard decisions. With a little more showdown value, like A9 or better, I wouldn't have a problem making this raise.

I also was pretty sure that the CO was folding, and the button was going to play, because he played a lot of hands, whether they were raised or not, I really don't like playing a hand like KJo in an inflated pot if I have to guess what the guy behind me has, and if I raised, I thought that that was probably going to be the situation.

I think that there are a lot of arguments for raising here, but I didn't, and it might have been a mistake.

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on the flop, if it was one small bet smaller i would prefer a call. once it hits 7sb i prefer a raise. if we are going to continue, for the obvious reasons i think it's the best route at that kind of table.


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I don't know, with two overs, and a gutshot, I thought that if I was going to play, the raise was the best idea, because it might help my overcard outs, and it might also clear out baby pairs. It is very possible, that I have a better hand than the BB, because he might be betting an OESD, or even a different gutshot, amd if I get it headsup, I might win unimproved, and if I do get it headsup, there is enough money in the pot, that I like my chances of outdrawing my opponent if I am behind.

Turn, Not much to discuss there.

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on the river i'm 3betting against most players, passive or aggressive. i'm 3betting against aggros because they are raising a wider range. i assume this guy is more on the passive side based on your table read. for that reason i'm even more inclined to 3bet.

alot of aggressive players raise a wider range, but won't necessarily call the 3bet with a wider range. a passive player will raise a tighter range but call a 3bet with a wider range. he will also rarely 4bet a hand that is less than the stones, as alot of passives(esp. tight passives) have MUBS. his most likely hand by FAR is trips. sure a full house like 99922 is possible, but i still think most two pair hands will give more action on the flop with the straight draw out. if they aren't giving more action on the flop with two pair, i highly doubt they are 4betting an underfull(especially given your preflop play). so i think we are 4bet rarely.

personally i would 3bet and feel pretty good about it. i think 4 big bets on the turn and river seem about right given the strength of our hand and the action up to this point. as i said, trips seem to be by far the most likely hand and you need to extract value from this holding since it's never folding.



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Ok, here is what I was thinking. He bet the flop, and then called closing the action. Does that seem like two pair or a set? I didn't think so. Then, he checkcalls the turn, again closing the action. Can he really put me on a straight here? It just seems like he has one pair, and is calling along for the ride.

Then he checkraises the river, when the nine comes, making the board T92-Q-9.

I thought about it, and decided that his most likely hand was J9. He bet the flop, and called. Then called the turn bet, hoping to make a straight, and made trips on the river and so he checkraised.

I threebet. He called. He had T9 for a flopped top two, and a rivered boat. MHING.

The guy next to me, who I think might be an ok player mumbles that he wouldn't have reraised the river, and it got me thinking maybe there was something more to this hand than I thought.

A lot of replies think that just calling the checkraise here was ok, because they think that I was going to be shown a full house a lot of times, and it did happen.

[Mike]

I sort of thought that is what you would be shown. Normally I like to jam in your position in this type of game, but as I said, I get my head handed to me too often.

Lately in these situations I have been trying to play softer because of the range of hands this type of player will play so passively. It does not seem to be a matter of them waiting until they know they have a powerhouse hand, but rather they wait until the river to give everyone a chance to get out. My thoughts anyway.

[James.]

out of curiosity, how would you guys qualify this range on the river:

KQ, 9T, 92, QJ, 22, J9, A9, K9, QT, 99

a)too wide
b)too tight
c)reasonable

also, what would you add/take off?

[ackid]

Raise preflop.

As played I think we can raise river for value. FH is unlikely given the action.

[Bob T.]

Before the checkraise, I think that there are a lot more hands that might be in the mix. You probably have to add J8, K7, and another KJ, and apparently TT, because now, I think that this player would call the flop raise, and check raise the turn with TT, if a scare card doesn't come.

After the checkraise, I think that you can eliminate KQ, and QJ.

I clearly had a hard time with T9, 92 being part of the range, although he did have T9. I think you have to include Q9 also.

[MitchL]

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Raise preflop.

As played I think we can raise river for value. FH is unlikely given the action.

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Sorry, but this just isnt the case. Even morons have a hard time calling the turn raise cold live with just a pair and sd, bc they are drawing too a chop so much of the time. I cant imagine him cr'ing the river with just a 9 very much. The call on the river is a crying call. 3betting is spew. When someone coldcalls out of nowhere in a smallish pot it is almost always 2 pair and sometimes even a set on a scary straight board. I play in this game often and though this may seem closer in some of the games you play and is probably a 3 bet online it isnt close here.

[MitchL]

Sorry guys I got the action wrong. I thought he coldcalled a turn raise. That obv totally changes things.

[JacksonTens]

wow tough spot... I'd prolly just throw 12 chips in, unless we have a read?

btw Raise PF

JT

[PokerBob]

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oops, It went check, check, I bet, SB folds, the BB raises.

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i think you're getting check/raised on the turn if BB has T9, so i think you can 3bet the river. that said, you probably have to fold it a 4ball, which is tough to do.