$200 NL | I always mess this up

[viper930]

flatcall pre if you're not willing to get it in on a flop of unders

[Rolon]

I think flat calling against this guy is bad. His range when isolating is fairly big...he could have a number of hands, 10Js, etc. and when I just flat call, I have no clue where I'm at on the flop. When I 3-bet, I'm 90% sure he won't call me with worse than JJ. Maybe 1010 but we're not deep so I doubt it.

I spend $35 with a good chance of taking it down preflop and define his range. For people advocating flat calling pre, what is your play on the flop? You are now OOP to two people (I assume the fish would call as well) without knowing where you are at all.

[Bukem_]

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I think flat calling against this guy is bad. His range when isolating is fairly big...he could have a number of hands, 10Js, etc. and when I just flat call, I have no clue where I'm at on the flop. When I 3-bet, I'm 90% sure he won't call me with worse than JJ. Maybe 1010 but we're not deep so I doubt it.

I spend $35 with a good chance of taking it down preflop and define his range. For people advocating flat calling pre, what is your play on the flop? You are now OOP to two people (I assume the fish would call as well) without knowing where you are at all.

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How the [censored] does a 17/10 guy both terrorize you preflop with a supposedly huge preflop isolating range, and scare you with such a tight calling range.

[Acemanhattan]

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I think flat calling against this guy is bad. His range when isolating is fairly big...he could have a number of hands, 10Js, etc. and when I just flat call, I have no clue where I'm at on the flop. When I 3-bet, I'm 90% sure he won't call me with worse than JJ. Maybe 1010 but we're not deep so I doubt it.

I spend $35 with a good chance of taking it down preflop and define his range. For people advocating flat calling pre, what is your play on the flop? You are now OOP to two people (I assume the fish would call as well) without knowing where you are at all.

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How the [censored] does a 17/10 guy both terrorize you preflop with a supposedly huge preflop isolating range, and scare you with such a tight calling range.

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I can say from 1200 hands with him, he has NEVER terrorized anyone preflop, and honestly hes pretty poor at extracting value post.

[Rolon]

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How the [censored] does a 17/10 guy both terrorize you preflop with a supposedly huge preflop isolating range, and scare you with such a tight calling range.

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Cause thats how he plays? I 90% sure my read is right. With that said, is the 3-bet so bad? Once he calls should I be crai on the flop or just fold?

[Bukem_]

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How the [censored] does a 17/10 guy both terrorize you preflop with a supposedly huge preflop isolating range, and scare you with such a tight calling range.

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Cause thats how he plays? I 90% sure my read is right. With that said, is the 3-bet so bad? Once he calls should I be crai on the flop or just fold?

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I can't really say, sounds like you have a pretty specific read on the guy. if my original plan was to 3bet him, I'd be fairly comfortable stacking off here though, unless his call sets off alarm bells for some reason.

[Acemanhattan]

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How the [censored] does a 17/10 guy both terrorize you preflop with a supposedly huge preflop isolating range, and scare you with such a tight calling range.

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Cause thats how he plays? I 90% sure my read is right. With that said, is the 3-bet so bad? Once he calls should I be crai on the flop or just fold?

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I can't really say, sounds like you have a pretty specific read on the guy. if my original plan was to 3bet him, I'd be fairly comfortable stacking off here though, unless his call sets off alarm bells for some reason.

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I dont think that 3 betting him and stacking off in this spot go hand in hand at all. We are 3 bettin to capitalize on the fact that he is raising from here about 20% of the time, and he is only calling a 3 bet about 6% of the time. That means over 90 percent of the time that you 3 bet him, you are picking up the pot. Its crazy to even think of not reraising this guy. Now knowing what we assume to know about the range he will call a 3b with, If all the money goes in on this flop we are likely to be a 4 to 1 dog vs his range. (im assuming if he does shove its AK hearts, AA KK or TT. I think its safe to say he flat calls JJ).

I cant believe anyone thinks flat calling PF is a good idea, and I cant believe we are not betting the flop vs a truely standard player. If he shoves then maybe the hand got interesting, but still then it seems standard.

[Dire]

There's more options than just shoving or folding. Calling here is perfect against a weak ABC player. They're rarely double barreling without QQ+, and the times the turn goes check check they often call the river with any pair.. putting you on AK I guess?

[Bukem_]

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he's right about GregOSU having JJ+ most of the time.

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you said 6%, I don't have experience with this particular villain. JJ+ and 6% is a huge difference.

roughly 6%.
88+,ATs+,KQs,87s,AKo

[Acemanhattan]

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he's right about GregOSU having JJ+ most of the time.

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you said 6%, I don't have experience with this particular villain. JJ+ and 6% is a huge difference.

roughly 6%.
88+,ATs+,KQs,87s,AKo

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I was saying that it appeared that of the 20% of the hands he was playing from that spot, he was actually only calling a 3b with 6 percent of those (not 6 percent overall:
raising:22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo
calling 3b: TT+,AQs+,AKo

I dont know why i got those ranges (im on some pain meds and had just taken a couple)
but after furter examination it looks more like this
raising: 77+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo
calling 3b (same): TT+,AQs+,AKo

which ends up meaning hes still folding 75% of the time when he opens here.
(sorry for the bad math just had knee surgery and I get messed up right before bed)