2 Live Hands - How Much Action? - Page 2

blackasthma · #11 08-10-2007, 11:03 PM

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Against the opponents you've described in hand 2, I'm probably capping turn here. Not bad as played, but there's still a good chance you have the best hand here. At least one of your opponents is donating chips here - make 'em donate some more...

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On second thought, I'm definitely capping this turn. You're easily looking at a flush draw and top 2 pairs from your opponents here. Plus, it's HG, dude...

Fnord · #12 08-10-2007, 11:56 PM

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These aren't unknowns.

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No post-flop read given on the first guy. Second guy likes to stab and that doesn't make for a big street spew monkey either. With first-hand observation I might cap, but pre-flop spew monkies are more often than not pretty passive post-flop after the first bet or two.

Scarmiglio · #13 08-11-2007, 12:42 AM

Based on that, do we still need to call down, or are we sure we're beat and can we save 2 bets?

Fnord · #14 08-11-2007, 01:33 AM

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Based on that, do we still need to call down, or are we sure we're beat and can we save 2 bets?

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In both cases you have outs to the nuts and our opponents can be erratic enough that we need to show both of these hands down.

Frond · #15 08-11-2007, 02:10 AM

Hand 1- With your take on villain I may cap this one here, esp if he has been showing down crap hands a lot kind of like you said he is. Although doesn't mean that he can't get good hands here and there. If your'e not sure on this one play it as you did. Who likes the PF coldcall here on the button?

Hand 2- I like to cap that turn with nothing but limpers in, nobody showed any PF strength.

Xhad · #16 08-11-2007, 04:42 AM

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Based on that, do we still need to call down, or are we sure we're beat and can we save 2 bets?

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Any line on either of these hands that ends in folding, when only one other player is raising, is horrendous.

Scarmiglio · #17 08-13-2007, 12:40 PM

Agreed. Just curious if anyone found a fold in either hand. I would probably never fold either live, but I wouldn't expect to win either after the villain 3-bets on the turn, even against complete lagtards.

FWIW - Hand 1 villain has Kh6h (ouch). I don't think the cold call pf is terrible against a crazy loose player, however I should have probably waited for a better spot.

Hand 2 villain had pocket 66. The only hand I could put him on that would 3 bet other than an over set was KJ, so I called down, but I was 95% sure he had pocket sixes or pocket jacks.

fishyak · #18 08-13-2007, 01:11 PM

Hand One - I like it, but the more your Villian is a maniac, the more likely I cap the turn and raise the river. To me, this would be read dependent.

Hand Two - set over set is rare and Villian didn't PF raise so no JJ and so I cap the turn. If Villian still bets the river, I still raise/call. If he has 66, so be it. But given your read, I'd keep on the gas peddle on the turn and give it one more boost on the river.

Xhad · #19 08-13-2007, 05:38 PM

The overriding problem with hand 1 pf is that you barely have the equity to play even against crazies, and that a lot of your equity depends on flopping weak draws (as in worse than OESD) which LAGs will charge you too much to peel to. Like it's one thing if you hit a K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop in a spot where you expect the flop action to only be one bet, it's something entirely different when you're up against people who will go to 4 bets with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and K2o on this board (or they do it with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 77 so you had the best hand but couldn't call that many bets with it). I just think you're a significant dog when you take into account how often you will be forced to surrender "your" pots.

Scarmiglio · #20 08-13-2007, 06:33 PM

Wow. I never really thought of it that way. Thanks Xhad. So that's why in SSHE they suggest waiting for big hands against maniacs - You're never going to get pushed off the K83r flop with pocket aces and have huge equity against the lagtards that are capping every street. I guess I was thinking that J8s is better than average (not by much I admit) and I had position so therefore I was in a good spot to take some money on a good flop from the lags. I'm sure this plan sounded better at the time because I was card dead and watching big pot after big pot and it was the first hand I'd seen in 3 - 4 orbits that was even remotely worth playing. Thanks for the feedback.