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#11
08-08-2007, 11:45 AM
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Re: Fun w/ K9o
[ QUOTE ]
^^ reads are important in these spots, but hero hasn't been playing long with villain, so we can't be sure about hero's read I get comments all the time from regulars, who think they know but don't have a clue, about how 'tight' I play, but if one of them open raises in the CO I 3-bet them with A9o or T9s OTB without thinking about it, but they always put me on premiums and I love it also, when someone seems to be playing passive, they might have been a little card dead I dunno, giving villain a range of solely TT-AA seems very wrong to me and without a better read I'm giving villain a much wider range which is why I don't have to think long about raising this turn I've made many mistakes before by incorrectly trusting a read of an unknown player with whom I haven't been playing long enough to be sure calling down isn't bad if you're uncertain what villain is holding, bc I too would hate to raise/fold turn, esp against an unknown, but we're missing value by not raising [/ QUOTE ] cb, you gave a perfect argument for why i don't like raising: this read cannot be fully trusted. so yes, we are indeed missing value by raising, but since i do not like folding to a 4b here without being v confident of our read, i think that calling down is better than 3b and calldown a 4b. That is, if we cannot comfortably fold, then the downside of calling down a 4b outweighs the value we miss by not 3betting. I cannot tell you often players I thought were tight/passive will suddenly surprise me with aggression. It happens again and again. I don't play live much anymore, so that could be an argument against what I'm saying, but I still don't like folding our hand here against someone we don't know v well. 
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#12
08-08-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: Fun w/ K9o
[ QUOTE ]
cb, you gave a perfect argument for why i don't like raising: this read cannot be fully trusted. so yes, we are indeed missing value by raising, but since i do not like folding to a 4b here without being v confident of our read, i think that calling down is better than 3b and calldown a 4b. That is, if we cannot comfortably fold, then the downside of calling down a 4b outweighs the value we miss by not 3betting. I cannot tell you often players I thought were tight/passive will suddenly surprise me with aggression. It happens again and again. I don't play live much anymore, so that could be an argument against what I'm saying, but I still don't like folding our hand here against someone we don't know v well. [/ QUOTE ] Not to mention that this is Commerce and there are TONS of WIERDOS at Commerce. I mean tons. Guys that are just totally random in their play and thought. I don't see how you can fold here. Even if you do decide to 3 town, I think you have to call if you are 4 bet. I for sure call this guy down.
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#13
08-08-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: Fun w/ K9o
I would never fold to a 4-bet.
However, I would still usually 3-bet this. While AK is certainly a likely holding, 99 is also very possible, as is a move or two pair/set (less likely). I think that his turn raise is not automatically AK, and I'd almost always want to get more value from the other holdings.
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#14
08-08-2007, 03:15 PM
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Re: Fun w/ K9o
Although it's fun to bet and raise, wouldn't it actually be better to call here, see the river, and then either bet/call or check/call?
It seems since his hand range is fairly small, the river will make a large difference in what we beat and what beats us.
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#15
08-08-2007, 03:25 PM
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Re: Fun w/ K9o
I would threebet, and lead river. If your opponent raises you again at any point, I would be inclined to call down...Can't give him credit just yet for AK.
Edit: I do like tessarji's line of waiting until the river to see if the board pairs. No board pair = donk/call. Board pair = check/call. That is a good way to save a bet when behind I guess...
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