More H from the HORSEament

[Xhad]

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The response rate has been slow enough for villain to chime in.

While Aaron claims he hasn't been caught, he may have forgot that he raised PF with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and showed it down. Villain noticed.

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Okay, that's true. But that was also a raise from the equivalent of UTG 6-handed that got me isolated against BB who was basically all-in preflop. I wouldn't call it "getting caught", but I would (and did) say that it was clearly a bad play because BB had no stack to play with.

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lol. I remember that hand cuz I folded 99 incorrectly thinking you would have noticed bona only had like .25SB left after posting. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[bravos1]

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The response rate has been slow enough for villain to chime in.

While Aaron claims he hasn't been caught, he may have forgot that he raised PF with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and showed it down. Villain noticed.

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Okay, that's true. But that was also a raise from the equivalent of UTG 6-handed that got me isolated against BB who was basically all-in preflop. I wouldn't call it "getting caught", but I would (and did) say that it was clearly a bad play because BB had no stack to play with.

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lol. I remember that hand cuz I folded 99 incorrectly thinking you would have noticed bona only had like .25SB left after posting. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Xhad reads fishies BAD! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Aaron W.]

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We're in the second incarnation of Hold'em. I've been raising a lot and getting away it (ie, not getting confronted). I've also been playing a little bit sloppily during the tournament, but drawing good enough cards to keep me alive and healthy. I think villain in this hand is Zeldark, but I'm not 100% that it's right.

Fire again or give up?

PokerStars Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind t100 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t1779)
Button (t3212)
SB (t812)
BB (t1239)
UTG (t2775)
MP (t2183)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB, t450) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB, t650) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero...

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I spent a moment trying to decide what sorts of hands would peel that flop, and I decided that too many of them beat me. The straight possibilities aren't tremendous (JT/J9/T9 idiot/AJ/AT) and there's no flush draw, which means he likely has a hand that he thinks has value.... or he's setting up a pure bluff.

I decided that the KQx board was just too ripe for hands that beat me that I should just give it up. The river paired the K, which gave me a real pause when Zeldark bet out (as now he has less of a chance of sitting on a K), but I decided that it would be best to follow my gut and chuck it.

I'll let him decide if he wants to reveal his magnificent bluff.

[Zeldark]

Before I kill the thread, let me pose a question. Look at things from my point of view.
<ul type="square">[*]At this point in the tournament our stack sizes leave Aaron with 8.8BB and myself with 6.2BB (before I post my big blind).[*]If you don't defend your blinds, you get eliminated thanks to them stakes.[*]Alternatively, this provides high incentive for Aaron to attack the blinds with me and a non-2p2 in the blinds.[*]I do think that Aaron is raising light PF.[*]I've been playing much tighter than my previous spewtastic 2p2 tournies.[*]The hand is 6 handed and folded to Aaron in the CO who raises. It is folded to me.[/list]So, what range would you defend with here?

<font color="gray">It may be a bit too nuancy, but with chat I've been playing along and welcoming all comments regarding my fishiness. He may know that my confidence was at a yearly low and playing extra careful. Aka, possibly easier to steal from.</font>

[sharpie]

Unless you have a good enough read to know what his flop calling range and river betting range is when you check, I'd bet the turn. The busted draws with no showdown value will surely bet when you show weakness, and there are even some worse made hands that might decide to bet the river for value (A3/lower pockets) so I don't feel comfortable folding the river, and we get the bet in while ahead more often on the turn.

[Maxinho]

b/f here =)

[Aaron W.]

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Before I kill the thread, let me pose a question. Look at things from my point of view.
<ul type="square">[*]At this point in the tournament our stack sizes leave Aaron with 8.8BB and myself with 6.2BB (before I post my big blind).[*]If you don't defend your blinds, you get eliminated thanks to them stakes.[*]Alternatively, this provides high incentive for Aaron to attack the blinds with me and a non-2p2 in the blinds.[*]I do think that Aaron is raising light PF.[*]I've been playing much tighter than my previous spewtastic 2p2 tournies.[*]The hand is 6 handed and folded to Aaron in the CO who raises. It is folded to me.[/list]
So, what range would you defend with here?

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It's not just a question of what you would defend with, but what would you defend with that is peeling this flop? Surely, it's not an autopeel since KQ hits a good chunk of my range (though less than AK). You're also OOP against an aggressive player.

FWIW - I didn't view you as being capable of 3-betting many hands to try to put me on the defensive and try to get me to fold quickly given my dwindling stacks.

[Zeldark]

I make no assumptions that I defended perfectly. The question was sort of a high jack, sorry. If you were in the BB, what do you consider correct to defend with in this situation?

Shifting back to your point of view, you're right I'm not 3-betting with much to get you to fold. So that is a good assessment for that situation. There's still defending, trapping, and less aggressive bluffing if you're betting light. I don't need to 3-bet PF just to bluff.

For my input to your decision, I could certainly see arguments for the B/F or the check and reeval on the river. However, my advice is clearly influenced by the knowledge of my own hole cards. LDO.

[Aaron W.]

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I make no assumptions that I defended perfectly. The question was sort of a high jack, sorry. If you were in the BB, what do you consider correct to defend with in this situation, if you were in my spot?

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Against a guy like me at this stage in the tournament, I'm 3-betting my strongest hands and the weak hands that I want to play that don't stand to be best. For example,

3-bet high end for value: 99+, AJs+, AJo+, KQs, KQo
3-bet low end for deception and to put pressure on villain to fold: 22-88, T9s, 98s, J9s

For those hands in the middle, like KJ, Axs, I'd rather try to use villain's aggression against himself postflop if I hit a hand. For example, KJo can be played like WA/WB and villain will likely value bet middle pair and not be able to get away from his hand on the end. Axs sets up a pretty strong semibluff if villain doesn't hit a pair.

The basic idea is that the implied odds of speculative hands is way down because villain won't give excess action unless he has a real hand when you play back at him. However, the medium strength hands that tend to flop value can be played passively with confidence, and the implied odds of those hands goes up.

As a side comment, I 3-bet Wook with 55 early in the game, but he capped me. This pushed me to play my hand straight-forward (fold flop UI). If I just called preflop, I'm often check-raising the flop and leading the turn (a much more expensive play).

[Zeldark]

Excellent analysis, sir. Inspirational as always. What range are you defending with passively then?

Edit: I'm also curious what other posters think for the entire spectrum of defending here, especially if you were there. Discussion is goot.