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#2
08-06-2007, 03:30 PM
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Re: Lets talk about AQ....
Well... The broader the opponents range, the closer these hands are to each other AKo, AQo. If opponents range is very narrow, then the strength is drastically different, as AK is screwed by AA,KK only and AQ is screwed by AA KK QQ AKs/o. Thats a significantly broader range of hands which bend us over, but compared to a wider range, like against the top 10 or 12 percent hands, they are pretty similar in power. One thing I will often ask myself with AQ is, "would my opponent likely be playing a smaller pair here" If the situation justifies them folding a hand like 99, then AQ is probably a muck. If they are *enticed* to play a hand like 55 due to their short stack size, accelerating pay scale, abuse of bubble effects, etc, then AQ becomes just about as good as AK.
Now with sklanskys gap, as soon as we have a raise and a call or a raise and a reraise, then our ranges narrow significantly, and the beginning of this post applies. As a general rule, I dont like to ever be third to the all in pot with AQ. It happens, like with a suited ace queen and Im short stacked late in a tournie, and a highly enticed to push player pushes, and a highly enticed to call player calls (like an uber short pushes utg and a huge stack iso raises or calls), then I will be third allin with AQ, but as a general principle, if two people have played at a pot preflop I can muck AQ, (although again I can call early on looking to flop a huge hand if I am in position and we all have deep stacks) 4card 
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#4
08-06-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Lets talk about AQ....
[ QUOTE ]
I'm becoming tempted to just start open limping AQ in the beginning of tourneys when everyone's M's are high. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is a bad idea. When M's are high, you "should" be opening a wider range than normal, so AQ should be at the top of your range. You raise because you expect your thinking opponents to be calling looser with deep stacks. You also expect non-thinking opponents to play just as terrible as ever and come in with all sorts of hand (e.g. Q9o). Anyhow, if all of your opponents are terrible (like in 180s) you are raising AQ with deep stacks for value because you expect to get called and stack hands like KQ. If you opponents are decent/good (like in 109s) you are raising AQ because it is at the top of your raising range, and doing stuff like limping with the top of your range is just plain silly (except to mix up play). Anyhow, as for the thread, Chopchoi's example is exactly what I was thinking. The difference between AQ and AK is that PF, when you get it in with AK, you are almost never in terrible shape (shoving or calling A/I w/AK PF is almost always +EV or very slightly -EV). However, with AQ, this isn't nearly as true (it really sucks to see two more hands: QQ & AK, and KK is now a more likely holding for villain\). Not folding AQ PF can be largely -EV at times. Almost never with AK.
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#5
08-06-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: Lets talk about AQ....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm becoming tempted to just start open limping AQ in the beginning of tourneys when everyone's M's are high. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is a bad idea. When M's are high, you "should" be opening a wider range than normal, so AQ should be at the top of your range. You raise because you expect your thinking opponents to be calling looser with deep stacks. You also expect non-thinking opponents to play just as terrible as ever and come in with all sorts of hand (e.g. Q9o). Anyhow, if all of your opponents are terrible (like in 180s) you are raising AQ with deep stacks for value because you expect to get called and stack hands like KQ. If you opponents are decent/good (like in 109s) you are raising AQ because it is at the top of your raising range, and doing stuff like limping with the top of your range is just plain silly (except to mix up play). Anyhow, as for the thread, Chopchoi's example is exactly what I was thinking. The difference between AQ and AK is that PF, when you get it in with AK, you are almost never in terrible shape (shoving or calling A/I w/AK PF is almost always +EV or very slightly -EV). However, with AQ, this isn't nearly as true (it really sucks to see two more hands: QQ & AK, and KK is now a more likely holding for villain\). Not folding AQ PF can be largely -EV at times. Almost never with AK. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with all of this. I've had more instances just this week of having to fold AQ post flop early in tourneys than I can ever remember. The trick is you have to be able to get away from it and move on when the flop comes K high and the idiots call your raise PF with K10 or something. What i HAVE started doing is c-betting less with AQ than i would with say AK when the flop comes out with non-Q paint. To me it has become a hand you can stack somebody with if they call you with AJ or KQ...but its not worth losing 20% of your stack with from a riase and a cbet. I guess what I am saying is that Ive started playing it almost like a small pair...hit the flop or run.
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#6
08-06-2007, 05:58 PM
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Re: Lets talk about AQ....
I like Chop's example, except I'm calling with AQ. Calling 600 to win 1550 can't be that bad. I mean yeah, there's an extra hand that has us dominated there (the case Q flopping is going to happen so rarely that I think it's barely a consideration), but we're getting express odds to hit the Q or A. We're still winning against JJ/TT/99 which are in his repopping range. And if the A comes we're ahead of QQ/KK.
Also I think position matters here. If we open and BB repops that's a lot different than if we open and CO repops us. I think a lot of the thing with AQ is that it sucks to play out of position so much more than AK. I think there I'm a lot more likely to just shove. There are also going to be times when some villians 3 bet KJ or AJ, AJs, a random medium pair or KQ or something. I just can't really fold AQ to such a raise that early in a tournament. Oh yeah, and I hope ChopChoi wasn't implying that he ever folds AK to that raise. Especially that early when villians holdings are way wider (although even late it's probably bad to fold). It's call or shove right? (and I think I like a shove significantly more than a call). I really like the point about AQ's value going up a lot as the tournament progresses for the reasons stated. So much easier to fold that coinflip at best situation than later on, among other things. edit: Yeah I realize that QQ has us dominated too, I was thinking about the times an A flops and AK stacks us or something. QQ doesn't scare me that much because we're either winning if an A flops or not almost always. And what I meant about "winning against JJ" is that if the A or Q comes we're ahead on the flop with relatively little villian catches up.
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