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#11
08-06-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] well in the bible it says you will be resurrected, your physical body, so we can infer from that a one to one mapping even if you believe in a seperate soul. [/ QUOTE ] Resurrected in our human body? This is one of my favorite parts about religion. The idea that our human form is somehow divine or modeled after the creator is a joke. Anyone who has studied physiology for more than 20 minutes would know that we are far from perfectly-designed animals. Why would we go to Heaven for eternity in a flawed form? Why would the Creator choose a flawed form for himself? [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure most interpretations of the Bible would indicate that we are given new, perfect bodies upon our death and ressurection. 
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#12
08-06-2007, 04:13 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] well in the bible it says you will be resurrected, your physical body, so we can infer from that a one to one mapping even if you believe in a seperate soul. [/ QUOTE ] Resurrected in our human body? This is one of my favorite parts about religion. The idea that our human form is somehow divine or modeled after the creator is a joke. Anyone who has studied physiology for more than 20 minutes would know that we are far from perfectly-designed animals. Why would we go to Heaven for eternity in a flawed form? Why would the Creator choose a flawed form for himself? [/ QUOTE ] I believe what the bible means is that he created man in his image, though not his physical image, but the characteristics that make him divine.....i.e. Honesty, forgiveness, courage, things of that nature.......
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#13
08-06-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
[ QUOTE ]
I believe what the bible means is that he created man in his image, though not his physical image, but the characteristics that make him divine.....i.e. Honesty, forgiveness, courage, things of that nature....... [/ QUOTE ] Careful now, you guys are stepping out onto the dangerous ledge of allegory. It is fairly obvious from reading the Bible we are supposed to think God made us in his physical image too. (One of the many clues that points directly to us humans having invented all of this stuff.)
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#14
08-06-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
All we are told is that we were created in his image. Does that mean physical, spiritual, emotional, mental, intellectual, etc? I personally feel that it is probably all of the above but with God having perfect/higher/better quantities of each. Again, pure speculation on my part since we aren't given specifics.
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#15
08-06-2007, 04:42 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
I am just stating what I heard from two devout Christians when I asked them this question.... I was very skeptical about the physical image as well..... But from what they said, it made sense....
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#16
08-06-2007, 04:54 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
it really depends on what you think "I" am. your complete physical makeup?..that would mean that you turn into a different person ever time a skin cell fell from your body and was replaced by a new one. The common phrase, "He hasn't been himself, lately." I think is more accurate..it's more about the mind than the body...but then again..my brother went on an anti-depression medication recently..his attitude has changed..and his thoughts have probably changed as well..which one is "him?" Did the old him cease to exist?.
the mark of "I" or "you" or "him" seems more like just a useful label that doesn't hold any firm ground than a concrete one. just a few thoughts... BTW I didn't talk about the soul because it's just silly, LDO
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#17
08-06-2007, 05:02 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well in the bible it says you will be resurrected, your physical body, so we can infer from that a one to one mapping even if you believe in a seperate soul. [/ QUOTE ] Resurrected in our human body? This is one of my favorite parts about religion. The idea that our human form is somehow divine or modeled after the creator is a joke. Anyone who has studied physiology for more than 20 minutes would know that we are far from perfectly-designed animals. Why would we go to Heaven for eternity in a flawed form? Why would the Creator choose a flawed form for himself? [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure most interpretations of the Bible would indicate that we are given new, perfect bodies upon our death and ressurection. [/ QUOTE ] Those interpretations are debatable. Consider the Assumption of Mary as a model.
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#18
08-06-2007, 05:19 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well in the bible it says you will be resurrected, your physical body, so we can infer from that a one to one mapping even if you believe in a seperate soul. [/ QUOTE ] Resurrected in our human body? This is one of my favorite parts about religion. The idea that our human form is somehow divine or modeled after the creator is a joke. Anyone who has studied physiology for more than 20 minutes would know that we are far from perfectly-designed animals. Why would we go to Heaven for eternity in a flawed form? Why would the Creator choose a flawed form for himself? [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure most interpretations of the Bible would indicate that we are given new, perfect bodies upon our death and ressurection. [/ QUOTE ] Those interpretations are debatable. Consider the Assumption of Mary as a model. [/ QUOTE ] So the people lucky enough to go to Heaven get new, perfect bodies and Mary has to sit around in her old Earthly clunker of a shell? That doesn't seem like fair treatment for the Mother of God, does it?.
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#19
08-06-2007, 05:22 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
Yes, though perhaps not in the way you envision.
The universe, including all time, exists simply as a covariant state |PSI>. It's all there. Before, after, during, etc. You are a part of it. You don't become part of it when you're born, and then stop being a part of it when you die. It simply exists (though we don't know why), with you a part of it. Analogy: Morpheus is part of the movie "The Matrix." It doesn't matter if you happen to be watching the very beginning of the movie before he's introduced, or if you're not watching the movie at all. The movie exists, and Morpheus is a part of it. He's not on every frame of the movie, of course -- but as long as the movie exists, he's there, doing exactly the same stuff, wearing the same glasses, giving the same speeches.
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#20
08-06-2007, 05:44 PM
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Re: Did we exist before we were born??
tpir -
I admit the conflation of biological existence with spiritual existence confuses me. But presumably it's not meant to be understood directly; rather believed as a symbol of a deeper truth. However, I am not Catholic so I have not experienced the joy and mystery of this doctrine; nor would I dare to try at this moment.
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