Party $200nl, river bluff = spew?

[docnuclear]

I like your line and your thought process and I have tried to make these kind of semi-elaborate plays and they usually don't work because they call. So I end up hating myself and remind to value bet and stop thinking against donks...

[Jurrr]

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Maybe try thinking what is he thinking?

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Villain: flop... I has A7o... pair is good. Lead for value and to see where I'm at.
Villain: turn... I has A7o... pair is good. That donk just called flop so he is weak. I lead for value and to see where I'm at. Raised? I has A7o... pair is good. Let me call and see what happens.
Villain: river... ah clubs missed... good... I has A7o... lead for value... Raised again? Hmm wtf but what he plays like that? I need to call for that valueable information. And I has pair... pair is good.

Villain calls.

P.S. I know this is how they think because I'm one of them.

[wtfsvi]

I think you should fold the flop since you don't have a good read on this guy. I would play turn/river the same I think, but I really don't like the spot we are in on the river. If we knew the player better we would know more about what to do there. Since we don't know the player well (and he seems pretty passive), I like to just fold the flop.

edit: also
[ QUOTE ]
or crappy two pair, TPGK or w/e.

[/ QUOTE ] crappy two pair?

[FishSticks]

wtf, so is everyone putting villain on {A7} here?

I'd just fold the flop against an unknown that has been playing tight and passively the first couple orbits.

As played, I think you have to shove the river. You're repping the fdraw the whole way so you can take it away, now you've got to follow through. Some villains will weak lead multiple times trying to induce multiple raises, but they're a lot less common than villains who weak lead with weak hands. I personally don't think an unknown calls this push against your line with any 1 or 2 pair hands.

Oh, and Allin3high - very nice post. Love it when people include thought processes.

[dregal]

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As played, I think you have to shove the river. You're repping the fdraw the whole way so you can take it away, now you've got to follow through. Some villains will weak lead multiple times trying to induce multiple raises, but they're a lot less common than villains who weak lead with weak hands. I personally don't think an unknown calls this push against your line with any 1 or 2 pair hands.



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How are you playing a made flush different on the river? Are you rasing less (i.e not shoving)?

I see donkeys (villian seems donkish based on his trun and river actions) blocking bet and then talk themselves into calling a raise/shove all time. IMO thats why valuebetting a made flush like this can be profitable.

[blah-blah-blah]

villian's almost never folding two pair. i think he folds A7 but might not fold A8. if he's a donk he's calling with too many hands for the bluff to be good and if he's not a donk he's inducing a shove so i don't like it.

[AllIn3High]

In my experience the ones that go to the felt here w/ A7 or A8 usually show this tendency early on and I would certainly have noticed it. When I wrote that he seemed tight, I meant it. Do you really see the average player at $200nl stacking off on this board often w/ 3rd pair? really? I'm all for not giving my opponents unwarranted credit, but if you just think everyone stacks off w/ crap I think we're too far in the opposite direction.

Also, I figure I'm doing a fairly good job at representing the flush, no? Most players actually pay attention to when the flush card hits and besides he's only getting around 2.1-1 to call, I think that's real pressure that he (should) have a hard time calling.

And nobody seems to have given much thought to my other question: what if he checks the river to me? My plan was to fire maybe $100.

FWIW If I actually had the flush in this hand I would probably in THIS spot raise the river less to get him to pay off (ofcourse, there's no way he can know this).

[bi11 frist]

i think the thought process is spot on and i think the turn bet gets a lot of folds, however in my experience at 100NL once they call the turn raise, they're calling most rivers.
also, i almost always raise the flop against weak ass donk bets. i think most of the time they fold, and when they dont they're almost always checking the turn, giving u 2 streets to hit your outs.

[cockandbull]

i think this is pretty well played, i think a hundro on the river is more than enough, i figure a smaller bet does the same job should he check...

[terp]

hands like this demonstrate one way bad players occasionally amass HUGE stacks.

i was at a table with a 90/15 last night who ran his stack up to like six buyins not because he ran particularly hot (he did, a bit, though) but because tags overplayed all kinds of crap against him when he took the same line again and again with very big hands and they stacked off suuuuper light. these guys are idiots but they're not randomly clicking buttons.

if the river were a fourth club this would be whatever, but as is, meh.