showdown

[iversonian]

[ QUOTE ]
He's been doing it with a friend and nobody has suggested to them that they shouldn't do that. Suddenly you become a nit and don't understand that they may feel a bit blindsided.

Why does this have to be a game of chicken? Why can't you simply table your hand? If you win, great, good range read on the guy. If he mucks, obviously his kicker is worse than yours and doesn't pair the board. You want to continue making money off of him, right? Why antagonize him? As to others, anybody who is smart enough to even care about your hand could piece together something reasonable if he showed and you folded. I see nothing to gain by holding up the game here. What do you have to prove and to whom?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not looking to make money off this guy. I, along with everyone else at the table, was looking to make money off the lunatic. Neither do I care about pissing him off and having him walk away. If anything, it would be better for me, not because he's particularly good or anything but because he's a short stack (if we're in a pot together, he'll probably be ahead) and that's one less player to take lunatic's money (it was 7am with no waiting list). Also, this guy is a loudmouth that the rest of the table is probably annoyed by as well, but table dynamics aren't changing at all in any case. We're all after lunatic's money and that's that.

[iversonian]

I should clarify. Lunatic bought in $200 at a time about 10 times now, with plenty more behind. Nobody involved was going anywhere, regardless of the outcome of the hand. I think I'll post a TR about this sometime.

[iversonian]

And I elected in this case to take option B. He showed a deuce before I showed my winner, but he kept jawing at me afterwards. A short while thereafter, I decided the money wasn't worth putting up with two douchbags (lunatic was an [censored] as well but got away with everything, of course, since dealers were getting >$5 tips a hand, we were getting rich, and the table would break without the lunatic). It was also 7am as well. In retrospect, I think that if I had taken option 1 and just played another hour or two, it would have been extremely profitable. But then, there is the issue of principle...

[bernie]

Just flip your friggin' cards over already. If you beat it, he played a crap kick. Does it really matter what his kicker is at that point whether it's T7 or T3? The point is made w/o seeing his actual kicker.

Also, if you flip your hand, there is a possibility he may misread your hand and think you have T8(2 pair) and maybe fold a better kicker. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

b

[Wyman]

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 NL.


[/ QUOTE ]
Answer 1: Just flip your cards. It's 1/2 NL.

[ QUOTE ]
He tells me, show me your hand now. I ask, what's your kicker? And then he starts to get angry and hostile, like, "I showed you my hand, but you don't want to show yours? Why do you need to see my kicker?, etc." Now, don't need any help figuring out what the rules say about showing down hands, and neither did the dealer. But how do you think I should have responded?

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Answer 2: Do anything for maximum F-you effect. As long as it doesn't screw up an awesome table dynamic, tilting a player (hard) whose pride is going to make him chip dump to you (and everyone else) is a good thing. If it screws up table dynamic in the short term, this could still be ok, since the angry guy (+ friend) will likely not play very long and then the whole table can laugh about it.

Unless you're feeling really confrontational though, I'd just flip my cards. I won't call you a nit for not doing it though.

[pa3lsvt]

I nit it up here by telling the dealer I won't show my cards until he properly tables his hand, emphasis on *properly*. I'd even go to the point of invoking IWTSTH, but keep in mind that you risk losing the pot if he mucks a kicker better than a 9 (you invoking IWTSTH in this case keep his hand live even if he mucks).

This creates some good implied tilt odds on future hands. Keep in mind that Player B will likely start playing back at you extra hard, so make sure your future hands with him have good showdown value and don't run any bluffs on him.

I don't really care what his kicker is at this point - either he beats my 9 or he doesn't - but I do think there is good value in knocking Player B off his Zen, especially if he's been engaging in douchbaggery to this point (like showing one card at showdown).

I can probably pull this off without pissing off the rest of the table, as I'm usually a very polite and helpful player. I have an added advantage of wearing an iPod at the table, so if he starts jawing at me I can just turn the volume up.

If Player B is a clear fish I might have second thoughts and just table my damn hand though, as I don't want to chase an ATM away.

[Arito]

My play and thoughts are the exact same as this ^^

[youtalkfunny]

LOL at anybody who thinks it's a good idea to try to tilt a player like this.

Tilting a champion is +EV. Tilting an idiot is 0EV or worse.

[PantsOnFire]

I say to dealer "I am tabling my hand and I want to see his full hand as well" and then I flip over my cards.

[Mr Rick]

For me this is very context sensitive. My response depends on the type of player I am against and if I like them or not.

The poll didn't have my standard answer when confronted with a decent or better player, who I don't particularly like, who makes a habit of this type of behavior at showdown. "Table your hand or muck it." said in a tone of voice that ensures he knows we are not friends. I have no problem with pissing him off and possibly even tilting him. I can't stand playing with a**holes like that.

For new players, bad players, or people I like (which turns out to be the majority of people I play with), I table my hand quickly. Its not about hiding my hand from the table because 99% of the time I will be turning my hand over for the winner. Its about not embarrassing somebody who I want to stay awhile.

Recently at showdown a new player turned over one card, an 8, to pair the board. I turned over my hand (AA) believing I had won and not wanting to antagonize him because he was losing (first time I had seen him). And then he turned over his other card a Q for two pair and the win. I didn't realize he was new to casino play, so I got pissed - geeting my AA cracked didn't help - but once I found out he was a noob I explained proper etiquette to him (i.e. turn over both cards at showdown) and he apologized but he wasn't doing it because he was a jerk, its just how he and his friends torture each other in their home games.