Quasi-Awesome Preflop Question

[ProfessorBen]

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I limp here and raise with T9s+

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I'm very slightly in the "raise" camp, but can be persuaded to change. for the record, I limped in this hand, then thought it was a small mistake.

See, I think that a lot of reasons to raise w/ 76s don't apply to T9s. For example, if the SB has something like Q7, you'd obviously want them to fold preflop. However, if the SB has a bigger Ten, they likely won't fold preflop to my raise.

So, getting out "dominating" hands is a viable reason for raising 76s that doesn't apply much to T9s. Also, the "bigger spades" factor....You'd want the BB to fold 82s if you have 76s, in case a flush comes. However, if you have T9s, you'd want 82s in there if spades comes.

My point is NOT that "you should raise 76s". My point is simply that I think if you want to raise T9s here, you should also raise 76s.

I guess I just have such a strong desire to play only against bad players that I like the raise. Maybe my preference for this is keeping me from doing the right thing, though.

Josh

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Villain in question is usually folding all J9-K9(maybe A9) and QT/KT, all nonsuited of course. The tighter SB is, the more likely I am to raise. We are also more likely to be good if we have TP on the flop than if we have 76s. We aren't just raising for freecards. There are legitmate hands we want TAGs to fold.

[andyfox]

"I guess I just have such a strong desire to play only against bad players"

This is not a mistake. If you're going to play, and I agree your hand is strong enough to do so, why share the weak player with two other strong players? As you well know, playing hands against worse players than you is the key to winning at poker. The second best player in the world will lose to me.

[Josh W]

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I limp here and raise with T9s+

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I'm very slightly in the "raise" camp, but can be persuaded to change. for the record, I limped in this hand, then thought it was a small mistake.

See, I think that a lot of reasons to raise w/ 76s don't apply to T9s. For example, if the SB has something like Q7, you'd obviously want them to fold preflop. However, if the SB has a bigger Ten, they likely won't fold preflop to my raise.

So, getting out "dominating" hands is a viable reason for raising 76s that doesn't apply much to T9s. Also, the "bigger spades" factor....You'd want the BB to fold 82s if you have 76s, in case a flush comes. However, if you have T9s, you'd want 82s in there if spades comes.

My point is NOT that "you should raise 76s". My point is simply that I think if you want to raise T9s here, you should also raise 76s.

I guess I just have such a strong desire to play only against bad players that I like the raise. Maybe my preference for this is keeping me from doing the right thing, though.

Josh

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Villain in question is usually folding all J9-K9(maybe A9) and QT/KT,

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When a LAG raises from the button, it's almost definitely a mistake to fold these hands from the blind.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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limp.

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I think this thread should be moved to Micro Stakes. This is a limp 100% of the time. There is no other reasonable option here. I cant believe this thread exists.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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The concept behind having a poll for this question is the problem, and that's because everyone's answer should be "sometimes I raise, sometimes I limp." 76s on the button after 2 bad limpers is the perfect situation to have a "mix it up" policy.

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Umm...No. This is a limp 100% of the time situation. Mixing it up here is retarded IMO.

[bugstud]

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The concept behind having a poll for this question is the problem, and that's because everyone's answer should be "sometimes I raise, sometimes I limp." 76s on the button after 2 bad limpers is the perfect situation to have a "mix it up" policy.

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Umm...No. This is a limp 100% of the time situation. Mixing it up here is retarded IMO.

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reread josh's post and tell me this is the case again please? I understand where you'd want to limp more than raise but everything he brought up has serious merit.

[surfdoc]

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I limp here and raise with T9s+

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I'm very slightly in the "raise" camp, but can be persuaded to change. for the record, I limped in this hand, then thought it was a small mistake.

See, I think that a lot of reasons to raise w/ 76s don't apply to T9s. For example, if the SB has something like Q7, you'd obviously want them to fold preflop. However, if the SB has a bigger Ten, they likely won't fold preflop to my raise.

So, getting out "dominating" hands is a viable reason for raising 76s that doesn't apply much to T9s. Also, the "bigger spades" factor....You'd want the BB to fold 82s if you have 76s, in case a flush comes. However, if you have T9s, you'd want 82s in there if spades comes.

My point is NOT that "you should raise 76s". My point is simply that I think if you want to raise T9s here, you should also raise 76s.

I guess I just have such a strong desire to play only against bad players that I like the raise. Maybe my preference for this is keeping me from doing the right thing, though.


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You have made some decent arguments for raising. Now maybe as an exercise you could present your reasons for limping.

Oh, and, you play poker?

[private joker]

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You have made some decent arguments for raising. Now maybe as an exercise you could present your reasons for limping.


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I don't think you heard ILOVEPOKER929 properly. There ARE no decent arguments for raising. Word has been passed down from high: it's 100% a limp!

I should probably delete this thread lest anyone be tricked into raising a suited connector on the button.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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The concept behind having a poll for this question is the problem, and that's because everyone's answer should be "sometimes I raise, sometimes I limp." 76s on the button after 2 bad limpers is the perfect situation to have a "mix it up" policy.

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, and as a deception play that doesnt cost any
Umm...No. This is a limp 100% of the time situation. Mixing it up here is retarded IMO.

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reread josh's post and tell me this is the case again please? I understand where you'd want to limp more than raise but everything he brought up has serious merit.

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Generally speaking, with a hand like 76s you want to see a flop against as many opponents as possible, as cheaply as possible. You dont mind having other "good" players in the pot cuz youre trying to make a big hand and good/tight players can make 2nd best hands too.

Raising 76s after 5 limpers is a viable line for pure value/possible free turn card/deception play that doesnt cost anything.

Iso-Raising 76s after one limper is also a viable line against many opponents with tight players in the blinds.

Once two limpers enter the pot who are already gonna peel the flop loosely and play the turn loosely, the last thing we want to do is charge ourselves to see a flop with this hand and build a larger pot to make the limpers "loose play" postflop more likely correct.

[stinkypete]

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The concept behind having a poll for this question is the problem, and that's because everyone's answer should be "sometimes I raise, sometimes I limp." 76s on the button after 2 bad limpers is the perfect situation to have a "mix it up" policy.

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can you explain why you would want to mix it up? is it just because you don't know whether the ev of raising is higher or lower than limping? are you randomizing here? or are there other factors that affect your decision?

i would thinking that given the information in the OP, the correct thing to do would be either to limp 100% or raise 100%. i don't know which is correct. i would think limping is, but i would sometimes raise because i'm on tilt and i want to win a big pot. but not because i think the EV is higher. i don't see the value in randomizing.