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#13
08-01-2007, 10:17 AM
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Re: River...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Checkcall is very poor. [/ QUOTE ] And why do you think check/call is poor in this specific situation ? I dont feel asif one liners realy help anybody... [/ QUOTE ] One liners doesnt help but c/c'ing is indeed bad in this spot. If you check this river you prolly have to fold. In particular as he will check behind a lot of hands as you say yourself. You mentioned first that you thought A high hands will bet if checked to. This is 100% wrong! The vast majority of players will check behind A high. When you check/call this river you will be value owned since villain will bet his better holdings and check behind a lot of the worse ones that will call a bet. Against a passive player this is an extremely easy bet/fold. Even against a TAG its a bet/fold but somewhat closer to a c/f. IMO river play is extremely standard in this hand with b/f > c/f > c/c 
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#14
08-01-2007, 11:27 AM
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Re: River...
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If you check this river you prolly have to fold. In particular as he will check behind a lot of hands as you say yourself. You mentioned first that you thought A high hands will bet if checked to. This is 100% wrong! The vast majority of players will check behind A high. [/ QUOTE ] I think you missed my point here, what i was trying to say was that since he will fold when he has a weaker hand than ours the only way we're gonna make any more money is if we check and hope to pick off a bluff. I didnt say that he WILL bet and i wouldnt debate the fact that most players are gonna check behind us with ace high. I suppose my biggest problem with this hand is that I realy dont see us getting paid off by a weaker hand so I can't see how betting can be correct in this spot. So, having thought about it some more im sure that check/fold is the correct play here although I would probably check/call and try to convince myself that its worthwhile if even just to see his hand because I have trust issues and the nit within sometimes gets the better of me. peace [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#15
08-01-2007, 11:45 AM
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Re: River...
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I suppose my biggest problem with this hand is that I realy dont see us getting paid off by a weaker hand so I can't see how betting can be correct in this spot [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Villain - 31/10/0.8 ~ 85 hands, haven't seen much of him. [/ QUOTE ] Albeit small sample there is plenty of worse hands that will call. 4x, 3x, 55--88 and possibly A high as well. Standard value bet IMO.
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#16
08-01-2007, 11:45 AM
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Re: River...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you check this river you prolly have to fold. In particular as he will check behind a lot of hands as you say yourself. You mentioned first that you thought A high hands will bet if checked to. This is 100% wrong! The vast majority of players will check behind A high. [/ QUOTE ] I think you missed my point here, what i was trying to say was that since he will fold when he has a weaker hand than ours the only way we're gonna make any more money is if we check and hope to pick off a bluff. I didnt say that he WILL bet and i wouldnt debate the fact that most players are gonna check behind us with ace high. I suppose my biggest problem with this hand is that I realy dont see us getting paid off by a weaker hand so I can't see how betting can be correct in this spot. So, having thought about it some more im sure that check/fold is the correct play here although I would probably check/call and try to convince myself that its worthwhile if even just to see his hand because I have trust issues and the nit within sometimes gets the better of me. peace [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Your reasoning doesn't make sense Bryan and you should really listen to Oink in this matter. Check/calling is a bad against passive player in this spot. Passive players tend to call more hands than they bet since they are afraid of getting bluffed of a pot but don't dare to make thin valuebets. Thats why they are called passives.
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#17
08-01-2007, 12:36 PM
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Re: River...
[ QUOTE ]
Albeit small sample there is plenty of worse hands that will call. 4x, 3x, 55--88 and possibly A high as well. Standard value bet IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I personaly would need to have more evidence that he will call with these hands before i value bet him here, i just feel like the fact that he 'seems to be passive' after 85 hands isnt enough for me. So unless ive seen him make this kind of call im checking, maybe its a hole in my game but i dont like to make such bets out of position with no reads. Good posts though and i value your opinions, we'd never learn anything if we just agreed all the time [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#18
08-01-2007, 01:15 PM
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Re: River...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Albeit small sample there is plenty of worse hands that will call. 4x, 3x, 55--88 and possibly A high as well. Standard value bet IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I personaly would need to have more evidence that he will call with these hands before i value bet him here, i just feel like the fact that he 'seems to be passive' after 85 hands isnt enough for me. So unless ive seen him make this kind of call im checking, maybe its a hole in my game but i dont like to make such bets out of position with no reads. Good posts though and i value your opinions, we'd never learn anything if we just agreed all the time [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] The villain has called the flop + turn. He's made it this far, if he does have a small pair do you really see him folding to a single bet on a blank river? I think even A-high will look us up a decent amount of time.
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#19
08-01-2007, 01:55 PM
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Re: River...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Albeit small sample there is plenty of worse hands that will call. 4x, 3x, 55--88 and possibly A high as well. Standard value bet IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I personaly would need to have more evidence that he will call with these hands before i value bet him here, i just feel like the fact that he 'seems to be passive' after 85 hands isnt enough for me. So unless ive seen him make this kind of call im checking, maybe its a hole in my game but i dont like to make such bets out of position with no reads. Good posts though and i value your opinions, we'd never learn anything if we just agreed all the time [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Hehe yeah! BTW I dont really need a "passive read" to value bet. I would value bet this one against most villains. I think you underestimate how much you will get looked up here. Do you have a background in full ring or No limit?
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