society's reaction to "living forever" - Page 2

Silent A · #11 07-27-2007, 05:49 PM

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I'll grant you that the word "right" is thrown around a lot, but that's not the same thing as "gov't owes me healthcare", which is a gross misconstruction.

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Sure. Go with that.

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Do you honestly believe that supporters of universal health care/insurance are primarily motivated by a desire to get coverage at no cost?

We're talking about the OP's "roughly half the US" who support this, not the loudest blow hards.

Shadowrun · #12 07-27-2007, 06:07 PM

I see the poor hating on the rich, the rich dont really care b/c they are rich.

As time passes and it becomes more affordable, less people hate.

Borodog · #13 07-27-2007, 06:07 PM

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I'll grant you that the word "right" is thrown around a lot, but that's not the same thing as "gov't owes me healthcare", which is a gross misconstruction.

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Sure. Go with that.

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Do you honestly believe that supporters of universal health care/insurance are primarily motivated by a desire to get coverage at no cost?

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Yes. I typically find that people who demand that they be given something for nothing are doing it to get something for nothing.

Silent A · #14 07-27-2007, 06:38 PM

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Yes. I typically find that people who demand that they be given something for nothing are doing it to get something for nothing.

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Ugh.

Are you willing to open your mind to the possibility that most of them do expect to pay something, quite a bit in fact?

rubberloon · #15 07-27-2007, 07:17 PM

Larry Niven has several sci fi stories in which organleggers figure - people who acquire vital organs for sale and don't ask questions. As organlegging would be a matter of life and death for purchasers (as well as donors) I reckon its a major wave of the future. How can high politicians cut off their own future?

goodgrief · #16 07-27-2007, 08:35 PM

Rich people already live significantly longer than poor people. I have no idea why the poor put up with it or why they prefer to kill each other rather than to go the French Revolution route. Remember the dude who set his dog on fire and killed himself on the freeway to protest his HMO? I don't get that. The dog had no control over his HMO. If every poor person dying young took down a rich person with them, the system would change. But poor people are too nice and/or self-hating. Obviously, living in a rich area as I do, I'm glad that the poor prefer to kill each other. But I often wonder why.

Borodog · #17 07-27-2007, 08:37 PM

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Yes. I typically find that people who demand that they be given something for nothing are doing it to get something for nothing.

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Ugh.

Are you willing to open your mind to the possibility that most of them do expect to pay something, quite a bit in fact?

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Sure. Are you willing to open your mind to the fact that this is totally irrelevant to the fact that socialized healthcare and insurance are disastrous ideas?

Silent A · #18 07-27-2007, 08:56 PM

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Sure. Are you willing to open your mind to the fact that this is totally irrelevant to the fact that socialized healthcare and insurance are disastrous ideas?

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Irrelevant to your non-fact? Yes.

"Disastrous"? No. I can entertain the idea that it may be sub-optimal though. This is the wrong place to discuss this further however.

My point has nothing to do with whether or not it's disastrous (or sub-optimal). The OP was trying to draw conclusions about how people would act based on a caricature rather than their true motivations.

Borodog · #19 07-27-2007, 10:16 PM

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Sure. Are you willing to open your mind to the fact that this is totally irrelevant to the fact that socialized healthcare and insurance are disastrous ideas?

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Irrelevant to your non-fact? Yes.

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It's a fact.

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"Disastrous"? No. I can entertain the idea that it may be sub-optimal though. This is the wrong place to discuss this further however.

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Fair enough.

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My point has nothing to do with whether or not it's disastrous (or sub-optimal). The OP was trying to draw conclusions about how people would act based on a caricature rather than their true motivations.

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As I've explained, your assessment of their "true motivations" does not seem to jibe with their own rhetoric. The demagogues who promote socialism always couch their crankwork in terms of class envy, convincing people that they have a "right" to things that must be produced by the labor of others.

Silent A · #20 07-27-2007, 10:30 PM

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As I've explained, your assessment of their "true motivations" does not seem to jibe with their own rhetoric. The demagogues who promote socialism always couch their crankwork in terms of class envy, convincing people that they have a "right" to things that must be produced by the labor of others.

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OP was talking about the 50% or so of the population of the US who supports it. You can't seriously believe that half the adult population of the US can be classified as "socialist demagogues".

I'm sure there are plenty of cranks who spew a lot of BS, but they certainly don't represent the vast majority of the people in Western democracies who fully support various forms of universal health care.