Winrate Limit/NL discussion

[Schwatt]

I appreciate all of the opinions and advice. I know I am a winning SH limit player at the stakes I play, but like others have mentioned my 12 tabling probably leads me to select quite a few "not great" tables. However, I am 99% certain I don't make many playing errors because of the amount of tables.

I believe part of my downfall has been the Supernova "rakeback". I play 12 tables no matter the softness. I am not a moran obviously, I seat select well, and try to stay away from the tables with 3+ TAGs.
I rarely play more than 8 or so 6-max, and the rest I fill in with FR playing them HUD-bot style(very little thought).

I have become so obsessed with these VPP's, that winning at poker has become secondary to playing thousands of hands.


That said, I am going to move to NL for a while and grind, the swings at SH limit are killing me.

Update: My first night of grinding exclusively NL I ran at 10.6BB/100 over ~1600 hands [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[sethypooh21]

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Update: My first night of grinding exclusively NL I ran at 10.6BB/100 over ~1600 hands [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Booyaka...

Also, did anyone else notice the PS games being INSANELY good tonight? I swear I had 4 tables with around 55% VPIP, 3 at 5/10 and 1 at 10/20...

[sweetjazz]

I think if you insist on playing huge numbers of tables and playing with little thought, then you are not going to win very much in any game you play. That said, NL is the best game for this style, because you can probably still do better than breakeven with a very cookie cutter approach.

[Oink]

There was a post about this recently. I think it was in high stakes.


A good winrate in NL is 5PTBB/100. In the thread I mentioned they keep refering to a thread last year where someone datamined the NL1000 at party that everybody claimed to be crushing. It turned out that very few regulars had a +5PTBB/100 winrate.


I dont know what stakes you play OP. But I know that with good seat, table and site selection (and prolly fewer than 12 tables) then you can easily make $20-25/100 playing 5/10 with rb etc.

If you can play twice as many NL tables you could prolly make the same hourly winrate playing NL100.


BTW Someone said that variance is lower in NL. Thats not true! In absolute terms the variance is much higher, however, since your winrate is much higher as well you will experience fewer big downswings and fewer long term break even stretches.

[timoK]

bluffman and Baronzeus did some of those dataming things in mid or high stakes forum.

but making 25$ an hour with supernova kickback isnt difficult. FFPs = about 0.5BB rakeback per limit if you get 1500$ points for cash items out of the stars shop.

I mean 12 tabling are about 900-1000 hands per hour = 9.5*0.5*BB=25 BB=5.3
with other words: if you 12 table 3-6 and play break even FFPs would kick you up at 25$+ per hour

[Oink]

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bluffman and Baronzeus did some of those dataming things in mid or high stakes forum.

but making 25$ an hour with supernova kickback isnt difficult. FFPs = about 0.5BB rakeback per limit if you get 1500$ points for cash items out of the stars shop.

I mean 12 tabling are about 900-1000 hands per hour = 9.5*0.5*BB=25 BB=5.3
with other words: if you 12 table 3-6 and play break even FFPs would kick you up at 25$+ per hour

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I was talking about $25 pr 100 hands at 5/10 LHE. Not hourly!

A $25 hourly could easily be made at NL50 and even NL25 if you 12-table. If all you make at 3/6 LHE is $25 hourly I think you should strongly consider playing NL.

[timoK]

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I was talking about $25 pr 100 hands at 5/10 LHE. Not hourly!

A $25 hourly could easily be made at NL50 and even NL25 if you 12-table. If all you make at 3/6 LHE is $25 hourly I think you should strongly consider playing NL.

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man, I am glad. I just thought how a quality poster link oink can only make 25$ per hour.

however I dont think you should compare the winrate per 100 hands. winning 2 BB/100 hands istnt that impressive if you 2 table.
but killing 3-6 for 1.5 BB/100 while 6 tabling kicks ass.

[Oink]

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I was talking about $25 pr 100 hands at 5/10 LHE. Not hourly!

A $25 hourly could easily be made at NL50 and even NL25 if you 12-table. If all you make at 3/6 LHE is $25 hourly I think you should strongly consider playing NL.

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man, I am glad. I just thought how a quality poster link oink can only make 25$ per hour.

however I dont think you should compare the winrate per 100 hands. winning 2 BB/100 hands istnt that impressive if you 2 table.
but killing 3-6 for 1.5 BB/100 while 6 tabling kicks ass.

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Agreed. Its the hourly thats interesting.

I was trying to make the point that a good player can make the same hourly earning playing NL100 as playing 5/10 LHE. Likewise I think NL200 compares to 10/20 and so forth.

Right now there is no question about NL being much easier money if you want +$100 an hour. Just too bad NL is so effin boring!

[Gurravasa]

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I was talking about $25 pr 100 hands at 5/10 LHE. Not hourly!

A $25 hourly could easily be made at NL50 and even NL25 if you 12-table. If all you make at 3/6 LHE is $25 hourly I think you should strongly consider playing NL.

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man, I am glad. I just thought how a quality poster link oink can only make 25$ per hour.

however I dont think you should compare the winrate per 100 hands. winning 2 BB/100 hands istnt that impressive if you 2 table.
but killing 3-6 for 1.5 BB/100 while 6 tabling kicks ass.

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Agreed. Its the hourly thats interesting.

I was trying to make the point that a good player can make the same hourly earning playing NL100 as playing 5/10 LHE. Likewise I think NL200 compares to 10/20 and so forth.

Right now there is no question about NL being much easier money if you want +$100 an hour. Just too bad NL is so effin boring!

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Another NL-advantage, especially for us Euros is that it's so much easier to find good NL-games eurotime. I think LHE is much more fun and challenging, but I force myself to do some hours of boring NL-multitabling every day just because it's so easy money.

[TKWest]

One way I look at when comparing win rates between limit and nolimit is to compare the total $earned per 100 hands rather than BB/100 between stakes that you would be comfortable playing at.

I play a lot of $25NL. A good winrate of 5 BB/100 will give you $1.25 per 100 hands.

I also play .5/1 Limit. To earn $1.25 per 100 I would have to run at 1.25bb/100 which is comparable to the NL win rate.

However you could easily become a losing player at Limit if your winrate even just slips a bit but at Nl you could probably be still making a little money as a drop in your winrate of 50% still leaves you in the positive.

SHorthanded Limit is more fun but NL is easier to stay at a positive winrate.