St8 on the turn - too agressive?

[RemyXO]

Kit ... cmon now ... playing any hand in position = extracting more bets when you hit and losing less bets when you don't.
Preflop equity doesn't change, but postflop expectations do.

[Todd]

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I don't consider it a huge leak, but I don't think it's such a great move OOP. Give me button, I'd raise.

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why does it make that much difference? your preflop equity doesnt change.

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Your equity will be the same, but playing OOP is much harder than playing in position, especially with moderate strength hands like KJs.

Me, I would usually limp here because of hte OOP aspect of it, but I wouldnt slam someone who raised, assuming that they have really good post flop play.

[KitCloudkicker]

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Kit ... cmon now ... playing any hand in position = extracting more bets when you hit and losing less bets when you don't.
Preflop equity doesn't change, but postflop expectations do.

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so then let me pick your brain a bit...i'm rather curious. what are you raising pf here, and why? would you raise KQs? AQo? and how did you come about these pf raising ranges?

im not saying your wrong (i've cooled off a bit on these things)...just wondering what your logic is. its just makes more sense if you dont pick a range that is arbitrary.

[sharpie]

PF is such an easy raise, as is KTs and QJs. I would also raise JTs for fun and junk.

[Xylocain]

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if none of the 5 limpers raise, then you likely have the best hand, and way more than 16% equity in the pot, EV-wise.

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This reasoning must be flawed. Ax and low pps are out there more often than not as ar suited connectors who takes good chunks of equity.

[RemyXO]

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Kit ... cmon now ... playing any hand in position = extracting more bets when you hit and losing less bets when you don't.
Preflop equity doesn't change, but postflop expectations do.

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so then let me pick your brain a bit...i'm rather curious. what are you raising pf here, and why? would you raise KQs? AQo? and how did you come about these pf raising ranges?

im not saying your wrong (i've cooled off a bit on these things)...just wondering what your logic is. its just makes more sense if you dont pick a range that is arbitrary.

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I don't have a hand chart, if that's what you are wondering [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I also must admit that it's been a while since I played at tables where you get 5 people to limp.

Anyways, I would raise KQs and AQo in this position. You would argue that KQs is only marginally better than KJs, but I won't agree. With KQs you have much better odds to straighten out and it has much more value when spiking a pair. With KJs you will see an overcard 60% of the time by the river - AND you are OOP. Not fun. With KQs you'll see an ace how often? I don't remember the percentage off the bat, but it's heck of a lot less than 60%.

I'd actually like KQs more than AQo here because of str8 and flush possibilities in a multiway pot. AQo is fine hand due to its high-cards strength and the fact that I am probably dominating Ax, KQ, QJ, QT limpers. And the King will fall a small percentage of the time.

[Xhad]

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if none of the 5 limpers raise, then you likely have the best hand, and way more than 16% equity in the pot, EV-wise.

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This reasoning must be flawed. Ax and low pps are out there more often than not as ar suited connectors who takes good chunks of equity.

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-You don't have to have the best hand to have a significant equity edge
-In this spot your equity is probably greater than with A6o or 22

[NIX]

Don't bet the flop, but the rest is good.

[Xhad]

BTW, about the position thing you guys have it backwards. Bloating the pot and making postflop more straightforward is much better when you are OOP.

[Buzz-cp]

yeah..i don't understand 3-betting with the nuts on the turn???

Just don't bet the flop.