Adjusting to over-agressive games

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
Sweetjazz, you may be right, I've only played 10/20+ a handful of times and have been very uncomfortable. But the example you gave, and saying "Rarely should you just call down at this point" just doesn't seem right to me. Capping and leading the turn on that board just seems a recipe for folding hopeless hands with few outs and at the same time leaving yourself vulnerable to being re-raised.

What are everyone else's thoughts here. Am I leaving a ton of money on the table by just calling down in these types of situations (which come up very often).

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have clarified that it depends on the opponent. But there are people who will 3bet in the spot I mentioned (Q72r flop) hands like AK / 97 / TT / 55 and take them to showdown because they have bloated the pot so much. Against these people, you have to give some extra action with a hnad like Q9, even though you will often find yourself "owned" by AQ or such. Basically if you're slightly ahead of their calling down range but positionally disadvantaged, it is often correct to put in that one extra marginal aggressive action. It's often pretty much EV neutral and leads to a lot of variance, but it generates a lot more action for those times when you flop big (e.g. Q7 / 77 / 22 on the Q72 flop).

It's a delicate balance, but the keys are to tend to overplay made hands rather than draws (unless you have a read that villain will frequently bloat pots but fold to later aggression -- very rare) and that it's very important not to tilt because the line between pushing small edges and tilting and spewing is pretty thin.

[freshjuuuiice]

Lets keep the personal insults to a minimum. - Surf

[jstill]

i dont know who u are talkin to (who were u?) but pretty much no matter what, ur talkin out of ur ace and comin across like a moran

[freshjuuuiice]

the post was directed at hisenberg.

[Heisenb3rg]

[ QUOTE ]
the post was directed at hisenberg.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol freshjuice, first of all

a) I dont advertise coaching services
b) my win rate is still > 2.0BB/100 over my first 30k hands at 10/20 (and 1.6BB/100 over 200k at 5/10) despite my frustrated post..
c) Im coaching a couple people because one time I said (I should consider coaching in a goal thread) and got 3 private messages asking for services the day of.. Or when I went to vegas and cleaned 3 players out of 3000$ shorthanded 15/30 and a guy asked me to coach him..
Ive never claimed to be an expert at beating good players at 10/20.

why be a useless [censored]? your only ruining what could be an instructive thread, I figure theres other people who are curious about this stuff too..

[vmacosta]

Heisenberg,
Its unlikely this will be a very constructive thread, but MD already made a great post and I feel your pain so I'll comment.

When people run good they just don't write stuff like what you wrote--its mostly lol these agro monkeys just spew all their money away to me i don;t underatnd how they're not broke.

Most of the "over-aggressive" actions you mentioned (like 3-betting the flop in position with a wide range and playing back with air) are part of a good overall aggressive lhe strategy. Some of them (consistently capping with crap A's and suited connecters) are minor leaks and you'll just have to ride out the gigantic swings.

As a reminder, when the games get bad and you are stuck I highyl recommend returning to your previous limits--you'll be amazed at how loose/passive the players are in comparison. Pretty sure this applies to any level (i.e. a 50/100 and 1/2 player who drops down to 30/60 will probably say the same).

[disjunction]

Make money off of the fish by playing with better starting hands.