SBvBB Is this standard play?

[bozlax]

Well, that's the question, do they care at all? Villan's play here is pretty bad, regardless of his holding, and in cases like this I do start saying to myself, "Are there hands that he might play this way that beat me?" J9/99 come to mind in this case.

I'm just seeing an awful lot of "ZOMG, an unknown Villan played back at our TP/an unknown Villan did something weird, Hero better call down," advice on the forum lately, and I think that most of it is bad. There are 2 bets in the pot when he donks us on the turn. If he had checked, Hero had bet, and Villan had raised, what would your action be?

So, yeah, I advocate letting him have it after the donkbet on the turn. You did what you could to buy the pot on the flop; he's now telling you in no uncertain terms that you're behind. In a situation where you're more likely to be up against an aggressive/aware opponent or with a read you can call these down OCCASSIONALLY to avoid getting run over, but are you really good better than 1 in 3?

[OrigamiSensei]

Boz, I see what you're trying to say here, and I think part of the problem is whether the table dynamic is expected to be loose-passive or the new-style SLAG. I've never played .25/.50 at Stars but from all the session reviews I think you're probably closer to correct with your assumptions on the default table style. I can promise you at UB this is a calldown much more frequently than not.

A couple of things to point out: first, the pot already has four big bets in it at the time of the turn donk, not two. Thus to rephrase your question we have to decide whether we're good one in four times, or paying two more bets to win an eight bet pot.

I think there is one very compelling metagame reason to call down here. This is our first hand at the table and it may be worth taking somewhat the worst of it compared to the one in four number to find out how the person sitting to our right plays the blinds. You're saying villain played badly and I agree but it would be most helpful to find out if his mistakes are pre or post flop. If he's raising J9 I'd like to know; if he's overplaying blind wars post-flop I'd also like to know that.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I can promise you at UB this is a calldown much more frequently than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

And thus it's explained why I never did very well at UB [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

You're right about the potsize, of course, and the calldown odds. My brain must've been somewhere else; I never should have bought it that car.

I can see the metagame aspect, of course, but it's balanced for me by having somebody on my right that doesn't play well thinking I'm weak-tight. The value of having him trying to push me off hands for the next 10 orbits or so greatly outweighs knowing exactly where he doesn't play well.

Otoh, fwiw, we've got hidden outs that might push this to a call on the turn as I'm thinking about it, but I don't think there's 1bb worth of value to calling the river. Meh, it's close.