$16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack

[yellowbastard]

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Are there antes?

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Yes. All the people that are saying fold might be missing this. I was getting over 4:1 to complete.

[EscapePlan9]

I don't understand why you're pressing on about getting odds here. You have a marginal hand, you will be out of position, and you're dropping 200 chips on this? Why?

[yellowbastard]

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I don't understand why you're pressing on about getting odds here. You have a marginal hand, you will be out of position, and you're dropping 200 chips on this? Why?

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I had a hand that I estimated would win the pot more than its fair share of the time so yes I put chips in. I dont see how this play could be losing me large sums of money over the long run and also dont understand why you have problems with it. Even if the guy bets every flop (which he doesn't) I only have to improve like 20% of the time to show a profit. Also, every two plus two book I've read recommends completing in the SB with ANY two suited cards in the various forms of hold'em. What am I missing here?

My larger concern about this hand was whether or not to raise AI against another deep stack who can break me with J high. Everyone so far seems to think it was the right play though b/c of FE and outs. What do you think? Should I put this many chips on the line this early in the game against the only stack that can knock me out?

[ChipLeader]

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Also, every two plus two book I've read recommends completing in the SB with ANY two suited cards in the various forms of hold'em.

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Uhhh, i dont think so. In fact, id like to see ANY 2p2 book that advocates a blanket policy, let alone one so bizarre.

Also, i see nothin wrong with the preflop. J9s is exactly the kind of hand i complete with here, its a flop hand, not a preflop, so i dont want to bloat the pot on a hand that is hard to play in a raised pot. If he minraises, youre not folding for 200 with 800 or whatever in the pot already.

Flop you can do one of two things, IMO. Option 1, prolly the better one 75% of the time, is to c/r all in. Its not JUST a flush draw, its a flush draw + 2 overs and i think there was a gutshot or at least a backdoor straight draw? He's the bigstack, but so are you, and hes not calling without a monster. However, im guessing since youre posting this he had an overpair which leads me to think your analysis of his minraise frequency may be off- but lets not be results oriented, maybe go back thru history and really check to see how many times he minraised and what he showd (if anything.)

The other option is to cold call and if you miss everything, see if he fires a second barrell. Very often, they give up now and youve gotten the turn and river to see if you hit without risking your life on coinflip at best.

As always, theres other considerations like the intelligence of the other players and such.

[stevi3p]

Looks fine to me, both pf and flop. Odds are too good to fold pf. In fact, given the vilain is tight, I suspect pushing is better than folding preflop (although I haven't got any software at work to check this). But I prefer completing.

nh