50nl: Flopped top two, scary turn spot... - Page 2

shoxbb6 · #11 07-12-2007, 05:57 AM

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See the problem with this hand is, donk is pretty bad into multiple opponents. If you get called and you see a turn, you are in trouble from half a deck. I prefer taking the pot on the flop, so c/r.

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I prefer a donk here to a c/r most of the time, by donking, we can trap mp's dead money and even get a co raise a good portion of the time.

Genz · #12 07-12-2007, 06:05 AM

I either reraise or fold preflop. I only consider a flat call when they are suited.
Why do you donk the flop? bet/3bet all in? Was that your plan? The board is far too coordinated for my taste. I think I check/raise. That will most certainly force MP out and will force CO to play his hand straightforwardly, i.e. reraise all-in which I would insta-call, considering his half stack. If he flat called, I'd push the turn.

iwa · #13 07-12-2007, 06:13 AM

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I either reraise or fold preflop. I only consider a flat call when they are suited.
Why do you donk the flop? bet/3bet all in? Was that your plan? The board is far too coordinated for my taste. I think I check/raise. That will most certainly force MP out and will force CO to play his hand straightforwardly, i.e. reraise all-in which I would insta-call, considering his half stack. If he flat called, I'd push the turn.

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Agreed. Donking on a flop as coordinated as this is begging to get owned on the turn by 2 different players. They call with such a wide range, you have no idea where you're at.

shadypac · #14 07-12-2007, 06:17 AM

Lol i think some of you are being a little results oriented here, im willing to bet if he checked with the intention to checkraise and the others checked behind and a third club came you would all be like "you have to lead this flop for about pot"!!! Im not normally check raising a flop like this for that reason, i dunno maybe its a leak in my game.

iwa · #15 07-12-2007, 06:21 AM

Negative, I always check this flop, 100% of the time. If the board gets really mess on the turn I'll have no problem folding to resistance when I lead the turn.

roll · #16 07-12-2007, 06:31 AM

I think checking this flop is a bad idea. CO's range is wide and as a result I think he's checking through on this flop often because its 3-way. I bet the flop because its likely you have the best hand and not very likely that you'll have the chance to c/r. I also do not want to go to the turn 3-way and see any club T, J, or K hit.

I find it unlikely that MP floats this flop with a T with the preflop raiser still to act. I also find it very unlikely that CO overcalls the flop with 2 pair or better.

I agree with earlier poster's assessments that MP is likely drawing however I think that CO could have JT or KT in addition to AK or AJ.

I lead the turn expecting MP to fold and CO to continue calling when he has AK/AJ and fold to a turn raise as he probably has JT/KT.

iwa · #17 07-12-2007, 06:36 AM

If they have any of those draws, they are calling your flop bet anyways. What sense does it make to build a pot for the draws oop and give them fantastic odds to call for cheap? When you lead this pot and get 2 callers, it's very difficult to determine hand strength of your opponents behind.

roll · #18 07-12-2007, 06:41 AM

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What sense does it make to build a pot for the draws oop and give them fantastic odds to call for cheap?

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Checking the flop would be giving them "fantastic odds". You bet because you likely have the best hand and you aren't giving them fantastic odds because you aren't stacking off when the draws hit and they suddenly wake up, hence why I advocate leading the flop and bet/folding the turn when a scare card hits.

iwa · #19 07-12-2007, 06:48 AM

You're right, checking the flop would be giving them fantastic odds, but, it would not be building a pot. You have to realize the villian or villians are going to be calling your bet with every draw they have if you lead here. C/R is the only way to push them off their draw. Playing OOP is tricky, and often is the place where most people will end up losing most of their money. If a scare card hits on the turn after leading the flop, why would you even bother betting?

If you're playing hands like this against me, I guarentee you I'm going to make it into a situation where you're going to be losing a lot of money in the long run.

shadypac · #20 07-12-2007, 07:05 AM

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You're right, checking the flop would be giving them fantastic odds, but, it would not be building a pot. You have to realize the villian or villians are going to be calling your bet with every draw they have if you lead here. C/R is the only way to push them off their draw. Playing OOP is tricky, and often is the place where most people will end up losing most of their money. If a scare card hits on the turn after leading the flop, why would you even bother betting?

If you're playing hands like this against me, I guarentee you I'm going to make it into a situation where you're going to be losing a lot of money in the long run.

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Why would they be calling with "every" draw the have. unless the person in position is getting 3-1 because the other guy calls. But we dont know there hands, we are assuming they all have KT, JT, AT, QT and stuff like that. Why isnt it concievable they they have suited connectors or smaller pairs here? And if you bet pot on the flop a hand like TJ isnt getting good odds to call because for all he knows his straight outs r a chopped pot and thats if a non club comes. His 2 pair makes someone a straight, so hes gonna call a pot sized bet for another 10? Id like someone to do that for me all day long. My point is because of the likely results your putting them on far to narrow of a range. If we "knew" the guy last to act had 2 clubs or KQ then maybe check raise is the play but we dont know that at all.