Absolute Certainty

[GoodCallYouWin]

The laws of thermodynamics are fairly absolute.

[DeadlyGambit]

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I dont know that mathematical statements would satisfy your friend. Perhaps you have made a deductive error.

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But mathematical statements are absolute, no? Adding 2 and 2 will ALWAYS produce 4, the solution will never be any different. This is at least one thing that we can be absolutely certain of. You don't agree?

[Peter666]

There are the metaphysical absolutes:

- It is impossible for the something to be and not be at the same time in the same manner
-A finite whole is greater than any of its parts.

And there is the absolute that you know you are concious. However, you cannot know absolutely if other people are conscious.

These truths are self evident.

[bunny]

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I dont know that mathematical statements would satisfy your friend. Perhaps you have made a deductive error.

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But mathematical statements are absolute, no? Adding 2 and 2 will ALWAYS produce 4, the solution will never be any different. This is at least one thing that we can be absolutely certain of. You don't agree?

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I do agree I was speculating on what a complete skeptic regarding certain knowledge might claim. It seems to me that an extreme nit might point out there is an admittedly slim possibility that everyone who has ever checked has coincidentally made an identical error and that 2+2 does not in fact equal 4 (despite the fact that we all think it does). They may say this miniscule possibility precludes certainty.

[GoodCallYouWin]

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There are the metaphysical absolutes:

- It is impossible for the something to be and not be at the same time in the same manner


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OH RLY

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
There are the metaphysical absolutes:

- It is impossible for the something to be and not be at the same time in the same manner
-A finite whole is greater than any of its parts.

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It used to be obvious that two observers would agree on the time elapsed between two events, then Einstein showed that was wrong. How can you be certain a new Einstein isnt going to demonstrate that one of these two are possible?

[oe39]

if sklansky replies you'll get his silly between one in a google and one in a google plex speech

[NotReady]

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It used to be obvious that two observers would agree on the time elapsed between two events, then Einstein showed that was wrong.


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I think the difference is the 2 you quote are analytical and yours is synthetic - but that distinction is more fuzzy now. I do think the idea is valid but the application isn't as obvious as Kant thought. And of course, there are always tricks of definition. What is the whole and what the parts? What does to be mean? Even if something is certain analytically it can't be applied with certainty to the world. 2 what + 2 what = 4 what?

[DeadlyGambit]

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The laws of thermodynamics are fairly absolute.

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How can something be fairly absolute?

It is interesting that you mention thermodynamics though. In nature, heat never spontaneously flows from a cooler to a hotter body. You can't apply heat to water in order to make ice. But could a scientific statement like this be considered absolute? I don't really think this something we can be absolutely certain of. Perhaps in some far off corner of the universe our scientific laws don't apply. I think Hawking said something like this could be the case at the furthest point of the universe, like where it is still expanding in the big bang. I don't really remember though, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[GoodCallYouWin]

I said fairly in a tongue in cheek manner. The laws of thermodynamics are :

#1 - Energy cannot be created or destroyed.
#2 - The entropy in a closed system always tends to increase (and never decreases).
#3 - ???
#0th - Profit

They are real and absolute.