Confused with JJ .10/.20

[TheEck]

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PF: I just call this hand cus CO cold call UTG raise

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So its easy 3 bet even when villians are TAG? (one of them raise from UTG)

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We don't have any reads to know whether the villain is a TAG, LAG, rock, or loose-passive. That said, I think JJ is a pretty easy 3-bet of a TAG from UTG. A TAG could be opening with AA-99, AKs-AJs, KQs, AK, most of which we are ahead of. When a TAG villain caps the betting preflop, now I'm concerned we're behind AA-QQ and ahead of AKs (and I guess a remote chance we're tied with JJ).

[JJack]

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PF: I just call this hand cus CO cold call UTG raise

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So its easy 3 bet even when villians are TAG? (one of them raise from UTG)

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We don't have any reads to know whether the villain is a TAG, LAG, rock, or loose-passive. That said, I think JJ is a pretty easy 3-bet of a TAG from UTG. A TAG could be opening with AA-99, AKs-AJs, KQs, AK, most of which we are ahead of. When a TAG villain caps the betting preflop, now I'm concerned we're behind AA-QQ and ahead of AKs (and I guess a remote chance we're tied with JJ).

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If im first after UGT TAG raise PF then also i make easy 3 bet but here is one cold call befor me.

I have one idea why you say guys to make 3bet with JJ.

If caller is also TAG what can be his cold call range? Probably only some cards like AJs,AQs,KQs and maybe 99-TT.
Our JJ is ahead PF with all of those cards and then i can understand why 3bet is correct here.

Is my thinking process ok?

[NIX]

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If im first after UGT TAG raise PF then also i make easy 3 bet but here is one cold call befor me.

I have one idea why you say guys to make 3bet with JJ.

If caller is also TAG what can be his cold call range? Probably only some cards like AJs,AQs,KQs and maybe 99-TT.
Our JJ is ahead PF with all of those cards and then i can understand why 3bet is correct here.

Is my thinking process ok?

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So then, if an UTG TAG raises, you 3-bet JJ because your hand fares well against his range, yes?

Now, in this situation, have two cold callers. Their hands probably suck compared to yours because they didn't 3-bet. In this case your hand fares well against one opponent and probably destroys the other two opponents. Your equity should be more than the 25% required to 3-bet.

As per the ranges you gave:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

16,864,698 games 32.140 secs 524,726 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.658% 29.63% 02.03% 4996267 342758.83 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 1: 32.429% 31.13% 01.30% 5249600 219455.67 { JJ }
Hand 2: 17.964% 15.78% 02.18% 2661817 367687.50 { TT-99, AQs-AJs, KQs, AQo }
Hand 3: 17.949% 15.77% 02.18% 2659193 367920.00 { TT-99, AQs-AJs, KQs, AQo }


However, our opponents aren't TAGs. Or at least we don't know they are because we don't have reads. I think your thought process is correct, although I think your ranges are too tight. Especially considering this is a .1/.2 game, the ranges of the two cold callers should be much wider, which makes our JJ look even better overall, making a 3-bet even more correct.

[Scary_Tiger]

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Standard. Seems like a classic WA/WB to me.

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wtf this isn't a hard concept. He's either slightly ahead of two overcards, or way behind a larger pair.

Hand is played fine.

[00Snitch]

When he 3-bets the flop, I'm really discounting AK. Considering AK makes up the majority of his range that we were ahead of... assuming he actually caps that UTG... we're screwed.

So whatever, unless I can fold this flop like a hero, I call down and expect to not win very often at all.

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The thought of waiting for a turn may come to mind


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I thought about this too, but I just think the pot is too big to give cheap cards to the muppets in CO and Button when there are probably lots of overcards in their range. However, it's not like your raise is protecting, and I don't know if you have much of an equity edge on the flop, so waiting for the turn might be a good idea.

I dunno, this hand is all screwy.

Interesting that the Queen actually helps us vs villans range.

[steve1127]

I like 3-betting preflop too, especially since we get to see if utg is serious. If he caps, presumably we might get a fold from CO or btn. Not in this case, as it turns out.

But why not lead out on the flop? If UTG raises, it's likely to knock the two stragglers, who may be holding hands with overs to our Jacks. If UTG doesn't raise, it's pretty easy to put him exactly on AK, no? Assuming that we get the CO and btn to fold then yeah, we c/c the rest of the way (maybe folding to an A or K?). Playing it this way, we save a small bet, though, right?

[NIX]

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But why not lead out on the flop? If UTG raises, it's likely to knock the two stragglers, who may be holding hands with overs to our Jacks. If UTG doesn't raise, it's pretty easy to put him exactly on AK, no? Assuming that we get the CO and btn to fold then yeah, we c/c the rest of the way (maybe folding to an A or K?). Playing it this way, we save a small bet, though, right?

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When it comes to leading this flop, with UTG capping, he is most likely betting this flop 100% of the time and we can decide what to do based on the flop. If we donk and he raises, he's most likely protecting his hand rather than ours since I don't expect an unknown to raise UI overs on a lot of flops.

Another problem with leading the flop is that if UTG is somewhat tricky, he can just call our flop bet with AA or KK to let the others hang around since they are probably drawing near dead against him and then pop us on the turn costing an extra bet.

[nerdking]

hand is so standard it hurts.