WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!! - Page 2

Cornell Fiji · #11 07-09-2007, 02:14 AM

as played shove river.

anyone else have thoughts on bet-3betting this flop?

NYWalker · #12 07-09-2007, 02:58 AM

I thought of re-raise 3-betting the flop. The reason I didn't do that was because of my stack size. If I had 2.5K - 3K, I would have shoved the flop.

Villain believed his hand was strong enough to c/r on the flop. I don't think he put me on a 4 since I didn't lead the flop given a drawing board.

curtains · #13 07-09-2007, 03:28 AM

another great spot to put in 2 $500 chips and a $5000 chip, and go ballistic when they say you raised, insisting that meant to just call and of course make huge scene to induce the call from 66.

Double Ice · #14 07-09-2007, 04:11 AM

I would reraise this flop after it was 1500 to me.

edit: Probably angle shoot by "calling" but throwing in a minraise is best.

willie · #15 07-09-2007, 04:19 AM

yeah, looks good, i just jam the river though- pot is nice and big and shoves look more suspicious than value bets to most people.

BeL0WaB0Ve · #16 07-09-2007, 11:29 AM

I think I would pause a bit on flop and jam,basically making it look like a flush draw. If I chose to flat the 1500 on flop and check turn like the OP said action went down, on the river I would bet just about what he did, 1500-2000 leaving 1500-2000 behind, which is definitely more likely for you to be bluffing missed clubs then if you jammed. Most people don't bluff off their entire stack on 1st hand of a tourney so go for value with what looks like a "bluff stab"

BeL0W

sirtimo · #17 07-09-2007, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
another great spot to put in 2 $500 chips and a $5000 chip, and go ballistic when they say you raised, insisting that meant to just call and of course make huge scene to induce the call from 66.

[/ QUOTE ]

(Curtains, this isn't directed specifically at you)

Perhaps this should be its own post, but in regards to angle shooting I'm confused by the situational ethics I typically read in the following typical posts/hands:

1a. Poster asks "is this ok?" about angle shot he did/ planned to do.
1b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you're a douche/you would be a douche/stop being an angle-shooting douche!!"

2a. Poster describes action, asks "did I get angle shot?"
2b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you got angle shot/other guy was a douche!"

3a. Poster hits huge hand, describes planned angle shot action to get money in, asks "best way to get paid amirite?"
3b. 2+2'ers answer " Wow, you're a douche! Stop trying to angle shoot!"

Then a hand like this one:

4a. Poster flops the nuts, asks about best line to take
4b. 2+2'ers answer "How about an angle shot???"

Seriously, WTF???

Cornell Fiji · #18 07-09-2007, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
another great spot to put in 2 $500 chips and a $5000 chip, and go ballistic when they say you raised, insisting that meant to just call and of course make huge scene to induce the call from 66.

[/ QUOTE ]

(Curtains, this isn't directed specifically at you)

Perhaps this should be its own post, but in regards to angle shooting I'm confused by the situational ethics I typically read in the following typical posts/hands:

1a. Poster asks "is this ok?" about angle shot he did/ planned to do.
1b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you're a douche/you would be a douche/stop being an angle-shooting douche!!"

2a. Poster describes action, asks "did I get angle shot?"
2b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you got angle shot/other guy was a douche!"

3a. Poster hits huge hand, describes planned angle shot action to get money in, asks "best way to get paid amirite?"
3b. 2+2'ers answer " Wow, you're a douche! Stop trying to angle shoot!"

Then a hand like this one:

4a. Poster flops the nuts, asks about best line to take
4b. 2+2'ers answer "How about an angle shot???"

Seriously, WTF???

[/ QUOTE ]

This annoys me too. I assume that Curtains is leveling with his post but I fear that everyone reading the response does not realize this.

NYWalker · #19 07-09-2007, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would pause a bit on flop and jam,basically making it look like a flush draw. If I chose to flat the 1500 on flop and check turn like the OP said action went down, on the river I would bet just about what he did, 1500-2000 leaving 1500-2000 behind, which is definitely more likely for you to be bluffing missed clubs then if you jammed. Most people don't bluff off their entire stack on 1st hand of a tourney so go for value with what looks like a "bluff stab"

BeL0W

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I like your analysis.

My debate after of this hand is the flop and river decision - shove/call flop? bet 1500/shove the river?

(Call the flop/leading the turn also considered, but will lose over pair most of the times IMO.)

====================

Because this is the first hand, no read to each other. Villain is a guy in early 30s from Canada (saw his canadian bills when he paid for the drink). Some players check/raise here with overpair just to find out where they are and they fold to 3-bet at this spot while others would call a push.

Without knowing this guy, I thought pushing the flop in this first hand may lose him 60% of the time though I'm still debating it myself.

On the other hand, pot is big enough to get any bet on the turn committed to the pot. If he put me on a flush and bet the turn, I get all his chips. Also, if his hand improves on the turn, he would also bet.

Finally, if he checks the turn, I can get more read about how cautiously he plays and can decide the best amount on the river.

That's why I chose to call the flop. Once he checked the turn, I thought he wouldn't pay me more than 1500 at the river unless he hit river. Not sure if my thought makes sense.

After he mucked the river, he's very frustrated and walked out for 10 minutes in this 15 minute round game. After seeing that I thought maybe he was going to call a river push.