K9 on QQK flop

[KitCloudkicker]

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this is similar to a hand in SSHE where hero has T7 in the bb, the pot is small (like 5 sb) and the small Blind leads into a flop of Txx. SSHE recommends a fold.


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I just checked SSHE. They do have a hand when the bb has T7o in the BB, there are 5 players and the pot is 5sb, but....

In their hand the flop was Q94 rainbow, the flop was checked through, a 7 fell on the turn and the sb bet.

Sorry, but different type of hand and action.

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sorry i dont have SSHE with me.

Maybe i got the hands wrong (probably mixed up), but the situation was that Hero had TPNK in the BB in an unraised pot and the SB led into 4-5 people.

[KitCloudkicker]

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Wow.

I am never folding this on the flop against an unknown.

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you also have the rest of the field to worry about, remember.

in any event, if you want to continue in this hand, you must raise the flop imo.

[KitCloudkicker]

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We are betting two, chasing six, from a very vulnerable spot? We are likely behind to at least one of the villains. An A turn or river crushes us. We have two possible outs K's, two semi possible outs, Q's, the nines aren't great outs as you mentioned. How many of our "outs lead to a chop?

We have no clue what the villains behind us are doing and not a great chance of folding them all. We are likely cannon fodder here sir but I admire your willingness to try and shoot our way out. I think I give up the battlefield cheaply here and look for a better spot.

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this is correct reasoning.

however, if this is a raised pot preflop and hero holds K9s in the BB, i'm at least calling and probably raising.

[RemyXO]

Marchron, g00t.
My first reaction was to raise it up and reevaluate the action.

[Aaron W.]

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Wow.

I am never folding this on the flop against an unknown.

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you also have the rest of the field to worry about, remember.

in any event, if you want to continue in this hand, you must raise the flop imo.

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Why must we raise? I'd call this all the time.

[RemyXO]

Aaron, what does calling accomplish? Are we drawing to something?
Raising may knock out gustshots and we get more information about SB's hand and everyone else's to figure out how to proceed.

[Aaron W.]

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Aaron, what does calling accomplish? Are we drawing to something?
Raising may knock out gustshots and we get more information about SB's hand and everyone else's to figure out how to proceed.

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Calling lets us see how many players are interested in the pot without a huge down payment. We're not too concerned with gutshots (AT/J9/T9 -- especially since we hold a 9), and the OESD/flush draw hands are coming along anyway. Anyone else (except someone chasing a naked ace) is drawing to a runner-runner type hand so I don't care if they call in this 6 SB pot.

[KingOtter]

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We are betting two, chasing six, from a very vulnerable spot? We are likely behind to at least one of the villains. An A turn or river crushes us. We have two possible outs K's, two semi possible outs, Q's, the nines aren't great outs as you mentioned. How many of our "outs lead to a chop?

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Seriously? Likely behind to who, exactly... the EP limper, the poster, the button limper, or the SB completer? Which of those hands exude so much strength that you likely put them on a Q or better K?

[NIX]

I usually just call here against unknowns. The pot isn't big enough that I'm overly concerned with protecting it. Gutshots shouldn't call anyways unless they're AT/AJ, so I'll take what information I can get cheaply as well as the overlay from people who probably shouldn't see the turn but are going to.

[RemyXO]

I dunno ... I am viewing it as more of an informational raise than protection raise. I'd rather find out where I stand on the cheap street than having to do it on later ones.