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#11
07-06-2007, 02:08 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] At your level I would speculate that an unknown isn't stealing. [/ QUOTE ] QFT But I might call flop... [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't... [/ QUOTE ] QFT I actually think at this level it is more likely to be a steal... I will say that in NL cash games stealing blinds isn't nearly as lucrative as it is in limit or tourney's with higher blinds etc. Some may disagree, but I believe it is true. I think that alot of people though still try it and see it as their duty to try it if it is folded to them on the button. Even if they don't over do it with their steals their range is much wider than a middle position range and would include many aces that are weaker than AQ and also probably KQ and perhaps less. Edit: I don't consider reraising here to be "defending" my blind, I consider it to be betting for value. When I think of defending, I usually think more of restealing, but I guess it is just semantics. 
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#12
07-06-2007, 02:20 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] At your level I would speculate that an unknown isn't stealing. [/ QUOTE ] QFT But I might call flop... [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't... [/ QUOTE ] QFT I actually think at this level it is more likely to be a steal... I will say that in NL cash games stealing blinds isn't nearly as lucrative as it is in limit or tourney's with higher blinds etc. Some may disagree, but I believe it is true. I think that alot of people though still try it and see it as their duty to try it if it is folded to them on the button. Even if they don't over do it with their steals their range is much wider than a middle position range and would include many aces that are weaker than AQ and also probably KQ and perhaps less. Edit: I don't consider reraising here to be "defending" my blind, I consider it to be betting for value. When I think of defending, I usually think more of restealing, but I guess it is just semantics. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with pretty much everything you are saying though. However, I wouldn't calling it betting for value against a person who doesn't steal. Against many players it is almost spew. Still nobody has inserted what they play is against a play whom doesn't steal in this situation.
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#13
07-06-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
Yeah of course if we know they aren't a stealer that is different, but against unknown I think i'm raising.
If they aren't a stealer, their range is still likely to be pretty wide OTB isn't it? I mean would you call raising with A8 or something a "steal"? Wouldn't most people raise with A8 OTB? We are still ahead of his range, but now we aren't crushing it, so maybe a flat call becomes better. We will be oop which is too bad, but I think the hand is too good to fold, but not good enough to get into a pissing match with.
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#14
07-06-2007, 02:36 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah of course if we know they aren't a stealer that is different, but against unknown I think i'm raising. If they aren't a stealer, their range is still likely to be pretty wide OTB isn't it? I mean would you call raising with A8 or something a "steal"? Wouldn't most people raise with A8 OTB? We are still ahead of his range, but now we aren't crushing it, so maybe a flat call becomes better. We will be oop which is too bad, but I think the hand is too good to fold, but not good enough to get into a pissing match with. [/ QUOTE ] Let's turn steal into raising wide, because that is what I was thinking. If this guy won't raise very wide on the button what is your play? Say he has a pfr% of about 8.
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#15
07-06-2007, 02:56 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
Well let's put it this way, if the raise came from MP I would call. So if I didn't think his range was much different OTB i'd probably still call.
In general I play SB with about the same PF "standards" as I play MP. I think it's a rare opponent that doesn't at least loosen up a bit OTB though isn't it? I wouldn't fold this hand unless the raise was from UTG or UTG+1 from a known tight player.
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#16
07-06-2007, 03:05 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
Well let's put it this way, if the raise came from MP I would call. So if I didn't think his range was much different OTB i'd probably still call. In general I play SB with about the same PF "standards" as I play MP. I think it's a rare opponent that doesn't at least loosen up a bit OTB though isn't it? I wouldn't fold this hand unless the raise was from UTG or UTG+1 from a known tight player. [/ QUOTE ] Say you are sitting in the HJ with tight players to your left. MP1 opens for a raise, do you call? A lot of opponents don't loosen up enough to notice without playing a lot of hands. In fact, I think you should assume an opponent is raising strong hands only until you see him get out of line. You could even make the raiser in EP. Do you call fold or 3-bet? Yes, I am going somewhere with this.
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#17
07-06-2007, 05:36 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well let's put it this way, if the raise came from MP I would call. So if I didn't think his range was much different OTB i'd probably still call. In general I play SB with about the same PF "standards" as I play MP. I think it's a rare opponent that doesn't at least loosen up a bit OTB though isn't it? I wouldn't fold this hand unless the raise was from UTG or UTG+1 from a known tight player. [/ QUOTE ] Say you are sitting in the HJ with tight players to your left. MP1 opens for a raise, do you call? A lot of opponents don't loosen up enough to notice without playing a lot of hands. In fact, I think you should assume an opponent is raising strong hands only until you see him get out of line. You could even make the raiser in EP. Do you call fold or 3-bet? Yes, I am going somewhere with this. [/ QUOTE ] Assuming villain is TAG. Sitting on HJ (HJ = CO right?), I call (maybe raise) EP/MP1's open raise, mainly because we have position. Sitting on SB/BB, I would call and c/f to a Flop like this one. Raising would not be my option anymore. This is because I am afraid to play an inflated pot with a not-so-good hand OOP. Good? Bad?
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#18
07-06-2007, 07:55 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well let's put it this way, if the raise came from MP I would call. So if I didn't think his range was much different OTB i'd probably still call. In general I play SB with about the same PF "standards" as I play MP. I think it's a rare opponent that doesn't at least loosen up a bit OTB though isn't it? I wouldn't fold this hand unless the raise was from UTG or UTG+1 from a known tight player. [/ QUOTE ] Say you are sitting in the HJ with tight players to your left. MP1 opens for a raise, do you call? A lot of opponents don't loosen up enough to notice without playing a lot of hands. In fact, I think you should assume an opponent is raising strong hands only until you see him get out of line. You could even make the raiser in EP. Do you call fold or 3-bet? Yes, I am going somewhere with this. [/ QUOTE ] Assuming villain is TAG. Sitting on HJ (HJ = CO right?), I call (maybe raise) EP/MP1's open raise, mainly because we have position. Sitting on SB/BB, I would call and c/f to a Flop like this one. Raising would not be my option anymore. This is because I am afraid to play an inflated pot with a not-so-good hand OOP. Good? Bad? [/ QUOTE ] Terrible but I'm not very weak tight. I'd start doing it now b/c it is something that becomes more important as you move up in limits to be sure it puts you tough spots occasionally but you might as well practice them. Think of it this way if you were playing 4 handed your hand is a monster. You'd want to reraise always for value. Its the same here, you're playing 4 handed-- everybody else has folded. When should you reraise AQ? When the openers range is larger than JJ+AKo+ and will call the reraise with worse. When should you fold AQ? When the openers range is basically JJ+ AKo+ When should you call AQ? When the openers range is broad, but he only calls the reraise with JJ+ AKo+
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#19
07-06-2007, 07:56 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well let's put it this way, if the raise came from MP I would call. So if I didn't think his range was much different OTB i'd probably still call. In general I play SB with about the same PF "standards" as I play MP. I think it's a rare opponent that doesn't at least loosen up a bit OTB though isn't it? I wouldn't fold this hand unless the raise was from UTG or UTG+1 from a known tight player. [/ QUOTE ] Say you are sitting in the HJ with tight players to your left. MP1 opens for a raise, do you call? A lot of opponents don't loosen up enough to notice without playing a lot of hands. In fact, I think you should assume an opponent is raising strong hands only until you see him get out of line. You could even make the raiser in EP. Do you call fold or 3-bet? Yes, I am going somewhere with this. [/ QUOTE ] Assuming villain is TAG. Sitting on HJ (HJ = CO right?), I call (maybe raise) EP/MP1's open raise, mainly because we have position. Sitting on SB/BB, I would call and c/f to a Flop like this one. Raising would not be my option anymore. This is because I am afraid to play an inflated pot with a not-so-good hand OOP. Good? Bad? [/ QUOTE ] HJ = 2 off the button. Even villain is a tight raiser, which is what I specified, what value does AQ have against his raising range? If you had the button it would be different, but since you don't a call here isn't good. A reraise would be fine if he had a wide raising range. Folding in this spot is correct.
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#20
07-08-2007, 07:28 PM
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Re: 25NL (9Max): AQ on SB, how do I defend blinds?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well let's put it this way, if the raise came from MP I would call. So if I didn't think his range was much different OTB i'd probably still call. In general I play SB with about the same PF "standards" as I play MP. I think it's a rare opponent that doesn't at least loosen up a bit OTB though isn't it? I wouldn't fold this hand unless the raise was from UTG or UTG+1 from a known tight player. [/ QUOTE ] Say you are sitting in the HJ with tight players to your left. MP1 opens for a raise, do you call? A lot of opponents don't loosen up enough to notice without playing a lot of hands. In fact, I think you should assume an opponent is raising strong hands only until you see him get out of line. You could even make the raiser in EP. Do you call fold or 3-bet? Yes, I am going somewhere with this. [/ QUOTE ] Assuming villain is TAG. Sitting on HJ (HJ = CO right?), I call (maybe raise) EP/MP1's open raise, mainly because we have position. Sitting on SB/BB, I would call and c/f to a Flop like this one. Raising would not be my option anymore. This is because I am afraid to play an inflated pot with a not-so-good hand OOP. Good? Bad? [/ QUOTE ] HJ = 2 off the button. Even villain is a tight raiser, which is what I specified, what value does AQ have against his raising range? If you had the button it would be different, but since you don't a call here isn't good. A reraise would be fine if he had a wide raising range. Folding in this spot is correct. [/ QUOTE ] Nobody every asked where I was going with this... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My point was if a guy has a tight raising range and we are folding AQ in the HJ (or even the CO) then we certainly shouldn't be calling his raise when we are in the SB. The value of "defending" your blinds and the disadvantage OOP requires that we have some sort of evidence that this guy has a wide raising range before we start playing AQ OOP against a raiser.
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