user "Nate." being permabanned

[NT!]

It seems to me like Nate has been pestering Mason about this for a while, hence the ban. I think if someone came out of nowhere and made that same thread it probably wouldn't have happened.

I'm not really going to argue about him being banned - I hardly know the guy - but I do agree with him about whoever Mason is paying to edit most of these books. You could pay a BA-level proofreader to catch some of this stuff, and those are people who make like 12 bucks an hour. I agree with Andy - that's pretty much the definition of 'low hanging fruit.'

What is even sadder is that, as poker strategy manuals go, the writing in 2p2 books is actually well above average.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Joker:

Despite my posts to the contrary, he made it very clear that

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore I'm led to conclude that Mason just doesn't care very much about grammar or style.

[/ QUOTE ]

or something similar. In my responses, I not only pointed out that we do care very much about writing issues, but right at the moment we have two texts which have been significantly delayed because of writing issues and these delays have cost us a fair amount of revenue which will not be recovered (and the authors have lost royalties that will not be recovered). So I don't know how else to answer his criticisms.

Yet he kept on. And eventually when this sort of thing happens, it becomes clear that there is an axe to grind and in his own way he's trying to damage our company. So he's now on vacation.

Normally I'm not the one who bans people and this authority is delegated to Mat Sklansky and through him to the rest of the moderators. So if and when Mat feels it's appropriate to reinstate this poster, it will be his decision. But I suspect his vacation will last at least a few days.

There's also another issue here. Checking my emails, this poster sent me his resume in March of 2006 looking for an editor job. Due to a computer crash where I lost some of my sent emails from my hard disk, I don't have my response to him. But we get these inquiries every now and then and my policy is to politely turn these people down.

Also, the book our critic is so negative towards is a book that was very difficult to edit, and in which our editing work was quite extensive. But unlike the other books I mention, we did make a decision to go with this text and not send it back to the authors for rewriting. We also decided not to bring in a skilled writer, such as an Alan Schoonmaker. These are decisions that we make inside our company and we try to make the best decisions we can given the information we have available. They are also impacted by publishing schedule, perceived sales potential, ease of working with the author(s), impact of the book on the company in general, printing costs, and a host of other issues.

Best wishes,
mason

[private joker]

Hi Mason,

Thanks for explaining. Knowing that Mat is going to keep on top of the suspension satisfies me, and I know Mat to be very reasonable and flexible, so if the "vacation" only lasts "a few days," then I'm cool with everything. It was my understanding that the ban was permanent, which I felt was excessive punishment -- even considering the case you make for Nate. being too critical of the company.

TT -- I see what you're saying, and it's true that I didn't know an Admin had made the decision and not a mod... but I think citanul's point (and one echoed by Andy and Jurollo) is that regardless of who made the decision, the punishment seemed excessive. Therefore it warranted a bit more of a discussion on why it was levied as strong as it was, and whether or not the other mods agreed with it. In other words, even if I had known it wasn't a mod decision, I'd still have made this thread.

[Jim Kuhn]

Mason,

[ QUOTE ]
There's also another issue here. Checking my emails, this poster sent me his resume in March of 2006 looking for an editor job. Due to a computer crash where I lost some of my sent emails from my hard disk, I don't have my response to him. But we get these inquiries every now and then and my policy is to politely turn these people down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a specific reason why these inquiries are turned down? I have also noticed these 'basic errors' and while I know the advice is top notch I still think the average Joe skimming through the book at Borders probably places the book back on the shelf after encountering these errors. Have you considered having moderators or close friends proof read the books? Some mods would probably proof read a book for free. JMHO

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[NT!]

Jim,

I was thinking of volunteering in that very capacity, but wasn't sure how it would be received.

As someone with a degree in creative writing who also has experience with the freelance world, I would gladly read through anything this company is putting together at no cost.

[Jurollo]

As long as it is only a few days then I am whatever about it. Anything more is crazy IMO. Even with the history I don't think its really ban worthy. I mean, if I thought that the HOH series gave terrible advice and posted as such saying that the HOH series suggests less then optimal plays and generally gives poor advice (which isn't true). Would I be banned? This brings up an interesting problem. Where is the line as far as being critical of the company? Constructive or otherwise.

[citanul]

Mason,

Thanks for coming here and explaining. I hope to finally get a chance to meet you this summer.

For future reference, we try to leave notes explaining why a poster is banned. It helps to minimize confusion here in the Star Chamber.

Just kiddingly yours,

citanul

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
Some mods would probably proof read a book for free.

[/ QUOTE ]

I offered to do this several years ago and Mason assured me that it wasn't necessary.

[Jim Kuhn]

I thought the OP's posts were mostly constructive criticism! I think I see Mason's point regarding editing a poker book. Most of the greatest poker players do not have the 'greatest grammer'. Most editors are non poker players. After the editors edit the works the original author would need to re-edit to ensure the context was not modified. This can take lots of time and with the 'poker boom' being past its peak time is certainly money!

I think 2+2 could probably benefit from a couple of mods editing the poker books. The average mod probably has a bachelors degree and much poker experience. Mods are already volunteering their time to help make 2+2 a better company so I think the risk of someone 'stealing' the book information would be minimized. If my situation was different I would love to help out with editing. Although my full time job, two teenagers, girlfriend, friends, family, two homes upkeep, mod duties and poker habits preclude that idea. Maybe in a couple of years.........

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
PJ - it wasnt a moderator decision. Dig?

[/ QUOTE ]

TT,

Are you a Sniper gimmick account?