Weird Red Rock ruling

[sonofstev]

You're right - I'd have shipped him the whole pot had it gone the other way, which it very well could have. At any rate, I finished up ($42) in that game and the victim was down something like $800 when I stood up. He kept rebuying for $100 each time and losing it in one circuit.

Yes, it was a great game! I'm sure the other players thought so too after my misread.

[Photoc]

Here ya go, quoted from Robert's Rules:

[ QUOTE ]
2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.

[/ QUOTE ]

--and--

[ QUOTE ]
2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ruling was 100% correct.

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
Here ya go, quoted from Robert's Rules:

[ QUOTE ]
2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.

[/ QUOTE ]

--and--

[ QUOTE ]
2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ruling was 100% correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so I bolded the pertinent parts in your quote from Robert's that gives the most headaches on this one Photoc.

On one hand it says DELIBERATELY miscalling and on the other it says MAY result in forfeiture - at no point is either of those statements concrete enough to say any floor ruling either way in this case is 100% correct unfortunately - ambiguity is the seed of dissent.

[Photoc]

Floor is perfectly correct to rule in all fairness of the game and for the best interest of the players. If I had to make the decision, I would rule the same way. Cards are live if easily identifiable. Floor's job is to not screw someone out of a pot that is entitled to it and not to let someone who isn't the winner get the pot, which is in all fairness of the game. Best hand wins.

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
Floor is perfectly correct to rule in all fairness of the game and for the best interest of the players. If I had to make the decision, I would rule the same way. Cards are live if easily identifiable. Floor's job is to not screw someone out of a pot that is entitled to it and not to let someone who isn't the winner get the pot, which is in all fairness of the game. Best hand wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am completely in agreement with you Photoc - but the rule you quoted doesn't quite say what you are saying it does, and some others have even gone so far as to imply that miscalling a hand is grounds for having the hand declared dead - what if the OP had miscalled his Straight but was in actuality still the best hand with A high? Are you advocating that he still loses the pot because he miscalled his hand?

[Photoc]

[quote Are you advocating that he still loses the pot because he miscalled his hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I advocate best hand wins at the showdown. No funny business, whether intentional or not.

[rubixxcube]

I agree that the correct decision was made here however i have seen similar situations happen where players cards were buried in the muck. As a rule of thumb since i have seen many players misread their hands on numerous occasions, accidental or not i always hold onto my cards until they table the hand they say they have, its not tough to do and makes sure you don't lose a pot for early mucking.