Ask Daliman about casino comps.

[Yeti]

i love everything about bellagio but playing black chips there seems to get you an orange juice and a slice of toast.

on the contrary playing black chip at places like the imperial palace seems to easily get you multiple free nights. but i have little desire to stay in those places.

so where is the happy medium of niceish hotel/casino that comps generously? thanks.

[trixter23]

not responding w/in 40 mins of your own thread is -EV

[demon102]

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not responding w/in 40 mins of your own thread is -EV

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[Daliman]

Ok, in a post in the newhizzle thread, El Diablo address comp formula, and he's pretty close on most of what he says, but it DEFINITLY varies from Casino to casino. Here are the basics;
Casinos figure a standard 60 bets per hour at blackjack, a 2% edge vs the average player, and will give 40% of their expected win rate in standard comps. Therefore;

Daliman goes to Joe's Blow's Casino. He plays BJ for 1 hour, flat bet $100 for the entire hour.wins $2600 and then asks for a comp to dinner at an on-property restaurant. How much can he expect in comps?

The basic formula for comping ALL casino games used at the average casino is (Avg bet) x (bets per hour) x (inferred edge) x.4.

So in the above case, the standard is 60 hands per hour, and the standard inferred edge for BJ is 2%, so;

100 x 60= 6000 x .02 = $120 x .4 = $48.

So now, we have to factor for how much he won or lost, right? Wrong, (well, not totally, but mostly).

Smart casinos are less concerned with actual wins/losses in the short run and more concerned with churn. They figure as long as you keep betting, you WILL get ground down. Now, if you LOSE a ton, but don;t get a lot of play in, of course feel free to ask for more than "your fair share"; the worst they can say is no. In the situations where you DO lose a ton in a short period of time, by all means, make an unreasonable, but not outlandish request; they may actually grant it if they think they can get you to play with them again, and it's a good negotiation point. Most casino's standard line for ACTUAL player losses, as opposed to theoretical, is they will comp 10% of an ACTUAL loss or the 40% of theoretical, whichever is higher. So if you KNOW which is higher, ASK FOR IT, OR EVEN MORE, as they wont just offer the better, and often offer nothing if not asked.

Now, I stay at MGM/Mirage properties most of the time, and have a good relationship with my host, so I am privy to their comping guidelines, (at least for me). I get 35% of theoretical win, which is based off of a 1% edge vs me. Most MGM/Mirage casinos do a "skills check", and apparently, if you have half a brain, they only figure 1% edge for comps. It kinda sucks, but them's the breaks, and Im not complaining. As you will see in future posts, even without card-counting, I am getting comps for less than 20 cents on the dollar. They usually factor 60 hands per hour, but my host knows I play primarily heads-up or 2-3 handed, (just like in poker), so he gives me a fair amount of leeway with that.

[Daliman]

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What's the least I have to do to get 2 free nights a week at the Borgata. I put $100 in a penny slot machine, lost everything, and I also play poker like 48 hours a week.

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You'll get casino rate, but you need to ask for it. The actual loss means little at penny slots.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

Are the Harrah's properties much more aggressive with comps than the MGM properties? That's certainly been my experience.

[El Diablo]

Dali,

No good places comp near 40%.

[Daliman]

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How does someone who only wants to play poker get comps?

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Casino rate is about best yer gonna get with regard to rooms, unless you are a big-time famous player, and even then, they'd like some pit time. Pretty sure casino rate is available at most properties for 6 hours a day of poker, but you can often do better than casino rate anyways through travel websites and such. TO that end, I HIGHLY recommend <a href="www.travelaxe.com" target="_blank">Travelaxe</a> , which searches like 20 different travel sites at once for you. As far as food, most places will comp a buffet if you play at least 8 hours, but some places have now gone to a system that credits you $1-2 per player hour an food. I am not sure if that can also be credited toward a room.

[Daliman]

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not responding w/in 40 mins of your own thread is -EV

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Sorry, had a "customer". [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Daliman]

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Ok, I'm just going to put this up first, and throughout the thread I will also intersperse general information regarding comps.

First and foremost, I would like to thank/credit Max Rubin for his incredible book, "Comp City", from which I learned a TON of what I know; anyone truly interested in this subject MUST own this book. I own over 300 books on Las Vegas, poker, blackjack, and gambling in general and this is EASILY my favorite.

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What is your industry experience?

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I have never been employed in the casino industry. All my experience is in getting comps.