HELP

[Casper05]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf @ everyone saying 3-betting turn is bad.

Assuming (!) villains range is heavily polarized towards bluffs, it's pretty clear that 3-betting the turn is +EV.

Without a good read on villain's tendencies on different rivers, however, just calling the turn will very often induce you to make an expensive mistake on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]If you think he's bluffing the turn, just call and call a river bet. Why end our value at his turn bluff...but who says we all think turn is a bluff?

EDIT- I dont play live very often, but arent most players stations? I would think raises often mean we are beat.

[The White Rabbit]

Playing the river after calling the turn is non-trivial. You need a read here in order to avoid making an expensive mistake (which includes ALWAYS calling ANY river after calling the turn).

It might actually be the best line in this hand against this villain (habitual bluffer), but it's certainly not the case that calling down light is always better than "turning your hand into a bluff".

[Casper05]

We raised $100 and he's folding anything we have beat. If we think he is bluffing, we can now call the $100 he bets on the river and get over double the value with our hand than we would have had we turned it into a bluff.

I don't think this is a good time to turn our hand into a bluff...but I am having trouble of thinking of a time when that is best anyway...not that there isn't one, but that I'm not good enough to realize it.

[orange]

wht,
i disagree. if you think villan is bluffing (a very good possibility), then i think that calling and letting him bluff the river is more +EV than 3-betting.

i also dont see how making it can induce you to make a very expensive mistake on the river...by 3-betting the turn, you've already blown the pot out of proportion and you arent even at showdown.

[Casper05]

yeah, raising to get a "free showdown" doesn't work when your raise is more/the same than the river bet would have been.

[The White Rabbit]

[ QUOTE ]
then i think that calling and letting him bluff the river is more +EV than 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]
This requires certain assumptions about his river play (which you very well may be justified in making in this case, but not in general).
[ QUOTE ]

i also dont see how making it can induce you to make a very expensive mistake on the river..

[/ QUOTE ]
Some opponents almost always bluff the river after bluffing the turn, others almost never do. Against the first category, always c/f'ing the river is a big mistake, against the 2nd, always c/c'ing is. What if you don't know to which group villain belongs?

[orange]

wt,
if i'm calling the turn raise, i am obviously calling most any river. (c/c-ing).

[Casper05]

wht rbt, you are willing to put in 100 on the turn, why not just call the turn and put in 100 on the river- then it doesnt matter which of the two villains you described we are up against, and we always get to showdown. Much more EV.