theory: "the showdown tax"

[wrschultz]

Like I say so often, this is a style thing and I think most people here don't understand this. You're very good at picking your spots and mixing up your play and have been doing it for a while. Your hand reading is very good and you've played a variety of styles and understand them all. This is why you're such a big winner, and this is why you understand how to make these types of plays. (I assume you're a big winner, don't have first hand info [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

I definitely went through a phase when I was shoving a rediculous amount like this, but lately I've been soooooo tame. Your style is kinda similar to the ActionJeff line of, deciding when your opponent can't call a shove and shoving. I would really suggest that people DONT do this, because you'll [censored] up a lot and lose lots of money. You can't just read a post about a particular play and know how to apply it correctly to your style.

The great thing about doing this ALOT is the fact that people can't just c/c one off over and over. If they know they're going to have to call off their stack with 2nd pair, they aren't often calling a flop bet.

[Readzie]

i disagree, i think they will start calling with second pair more often because you are prone to 3 barell.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jigsaws]

very interesting, ca. i need to think about this.

i wish there was a way to filter for hands where i bet the river in PT now. in fact, let me see if i can do that with SQL.

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
These hands are gross in a vacuum and should be judged in context.

[/ QUOTE ]

i completely disagree. even if we disregard the "range merging" aspect, valuebetting razor thin is the difference between a fat winrate on the way to MSNL and being SSNL4lyfe

[Tickner]

so basically you cant check call, you cant fold, so "Wtf I dunno what to do I'll just shove and hope for the best"?

I think I see what you are getting at but I'm not sure if the reasoning here is vaild. Shoving these rivers certainly shouldn't be done 100% of the time.

Obv this is only good vs particular opponents at the right times, and I think that is the part of it that you should get deeper into.

Which opponents, and under what circumstances, is this good against?

[redCashion]

[ QUOTE ]
Shoving these rivers certainly shouldn't be done 100% of the time.

Obv this is only good vs particular opponents at the right times, and I think that is the part of it that you should get deeper into.

Which opponents, and under what circumstances, is this good against?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the key here, because talking about a concept that has this much variance without getting into detail about when, why, and how often you are applying it doesn't mean alot. Btw, what is your river and overall aggression factor when you play this way?

[Redgrape]

I think these hands are exploiting good regs who will think your bluffing in these situations. I understand your reasoning but i feel like flat weak value bets are better here barring a read that the players will call bluffy lines.

[mikechops]

I think 1 and 2 are pretty bad. I'd agree we probably ahead in both hands but can't see getting called by worse or folding better hands -(well maybe a nervous AJ in 1? but that's real thin).

Was 3 a mono flop? If so I think it is spew, but otherwise I like it depending on the opponent.

[Speedlimits]

Hey CAterp good post. I'm trying to incorporate this into my game. Is this a good example?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $141.20
BB: $23.65
UTG: $62.55
<font color="black">Hero (CO): $49.25</font>
BTN: $55.65

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.00</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($6) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $5.00</font>, SB calls $5.00, BB folds

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($16) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $12.50</font>, SB calls $12.50

<font color="black">River:</font> ($41) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $29.75</font>,

[forshure]

No. Your hand is far stronger then any hand he shoves on any of those rivers.