100NL AQ turned TPGK

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with taking it down pf + taking it down with a c-bet but I think that winning a pot at showdown with that hand will not happen very often in this spot? So you've turned AQ into a bluff no? I am also really interested to hear more about this!

[/ QUOTE ]
I have some thoughts on the subject. I agree with berg on the benefits of re-raising. We probably have the best hand but we like to take it down preflop because still we'll miss the flop 2/3 of the time so by re-raising and making him fold we; a) don't risk getting outflopped by a worse hand and; b) don't risk folding the best hand on the flop. Also, if we get called a c-bet is really profitable against most players. The greatest reason to re-raise is to be able to take down the pot on the flop (or preflop) without flopping a hand. PLaying oop without the initiative will make us fold the best hand way too often. I think calling preflop must be combined with check/raising a lot of ragged flop to be a consideration.

If we call preflop we're turning it into a guessing game postflop, villain is probably on a wide range (Ax being only a small part of it). We'll rarely flop a hand worth check/raising the flop with the intention of felting it, so when we hit we'll most often just check/call the flop. Now let's say the flop is AT8, he bets we call. Turn is a 9. What's our plan here? He could easily have AA/AK/AT/A9/A8/QJ/TT/99/88. If we check, do we call a bet? How often will he 2nd barrel? Since we're oop we're in a tough spot where we might be the sucker paying off or getting bluffed (or even valuebet) off the best hand.

Now this last example is a really tough board, but there will be several flops where we're in a tough spot like this. My point being, even though we might dominate him preflop, calling and playing oop might still put us in trouble.


Edit: This was ment to address playing vs an unknown.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
oh check call turn as well. someone mentioned crai on the turn but not really sure what part of his range that you are ahead of calls apart from a flush draw although imo if a player wont try and take the pot on the flop with a semibluff, they are usually taking a free card on the turn with a fd so ur usually only looking at the made hand end of the range.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you check the turn and villain bets it's an all in or fold situation. At least if he bets 1/2-pot or more. Just take a look at the stacks.

[Nick Royale]

I probably check/fold the turn. We're now behind AA/KK/JJ/AK/KJ/QT. I don't think he'll bet weak hands with a gut-shot on the turn if we check (KQ/QJ/QQ) and if he does I'll give him the pot. I don't think there's enough of fd:s in his range that he will bet for us to felt this hand (I expect Ahxh to check the turn). I must say felting this ugly looking board seem really bad to me unless we know villain is a lag.

[kindju]

Thanks for the long replies.
I agree that in most cases 3-betting is the better play.
Question though, 100BB stacks you reraise a button opener on the BB with AQ and flop TP on a Q48 flop, pot is 32$ you bet 20$ villain calls, turn is J, the pot is now 72$ and remaining stacks are 64$, any bets commits you no? What's the plan?
Thank you in advance for your reply, I'm really trying to improve my play in reraised pots OOP where I feel I'm loosing way too much.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the long replies.
I agree that in most cases 3-betting is the better play.
Question though, 100BB stacks you reraise a button opener on the BB with AQ and flop TP on a Q48 flop, pot is 32$ you bet 20$ villain calls, turn is J, the pot is now 72$ and remaining stacks are 64$, any bets commits you no? What's the plan?
Thank you in advance for your reply, I'm really trying to improve my play in reraised pots OOP where I feel I'm loosing way too much.

[/ QUOTE ]
Deleted my first response because I misread the example.

This is a tough spot. Any fd possible? Reads? I'm not sure if I b/c or c/rai. We're not in that good shape if the moneys goes in on the turn, but I can't see getting away from this hand. Readless on a non fd board I c/rai. If there's a fd I b/c.

[kindju]

So you're ok stacking off with TP on a dry board vs an unknown everytime here? What if your opponent is a TAG?
Assuming 200 BB stacks, the hand plays very differently, the pot is still 72$ but remaining stacks are now 164$ do you b/f the turn?

[ftavatar]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the long replies.
I agree that in most cases 3-betting is the better play.
Question though, 100BB stacks you reraise a button opener on the BB with AQ and flop TP on a Q48 flop, pot is 32$ you bet 20$ villain calls, turn is J, the pot is now 72$ and remaining stacks are 64$, any bets commits you no? What's the plan?
Thank you in advance for your reply, I'm really trying to improve my play in reraised pots OOP where I feel I'm loosing way too much.

[/ QUOTE ]
i would be getting ready to get my stack in here by crai or if he checks the turn bet an ammount that 10's might call on the river. you're going to run into aa-kk and sets every now and again but you will get a lot of value from floats (people get stuborn esp if u 3b a lot and esp if there is a lot in the middle), low pp's and worse q's. i think u have to make sure you do get value from the range though as if ur just blasting away you'll get the hands you want in fold-e.g. jj wont usually call 2 brls on a q high flop, but might very well go with it if your range could have ak- missed suited c's and lower pp's.
good ol brian townsend has some intersting stuff to say about the subject in his vids on cardrunners. they also in generaly advocate the 3b strategy so if your not a member then have a look. lot of good advice there.
gl
oh btw brian stacks of with kq on a q high flop in his vid. if its good enoguh for aba its good enough for me! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Pacuno]

This is a very difficult situation with no reads. I also would have made the 3-bet pf but for me this hand is the example that I doubt if it's +ev or not. You're going into a large pot now with a marginal hand. Without reads I would choose for a c/f on the turn. Most of the time a player would only bet with a real strong hand and check a fd or something like KQ as well. Because there isn't much FE a crai doesn't seems the right play to me.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're ok stacking off with TP on a dry board vs an unknown everytime here? What if your opponent is a TAG?
Assuming 200 BB stacks, the hand plays very differently, the pot is still 72$ but remaining stacks are now 164$ do you b/f the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would check the turn 200bb deep if the flop contains no fd, hoping for him to check behind, folding to a big bet and calling smallish bets (40 and lower). I fold the river UI.

With a fd out I might bet/fold the turn, ~$50, and check/fold the river. I think checking the turn is decent even if there's a fd possible though, in my experience players become less prone to make a bluff at the river if I check/call the turn and check the river, rather than if I bet the turn and check the river.


This is a hand from yesterday against a tag, got to think about it even though I'm in position here. Just to show that you're not screwed just because you get action with AQ.


Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($236.15)
UTG ($273.45)
Hero ($197.00)
Button ($143.00)
SB ($1111.23)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $26</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $18.

Flop: ($55) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $38</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $247.45 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $133 (All-In).

Turn: ($473.45) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($473.45) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Hero shows: Ace of Spades, Queen of Clubs
UTG mucks:
Hero wins $395.00 from the main pot

Final Pot: $473.45

[wrkingtobegreat]

*grunch* Didn't ur mother ever tell u not to make it 16bb with AQ?