JJ tough spot

[Fat Nicky]

i don't know why everyone is so quick to put the CO on such a narrow range of QQ+ here. After the SBs 3-bet, and our call, even tight players are going to play a wider range than usual here: any pair, high suited cards, maybe even suited connectors, suited Aces.

that said...i like shoving the turn. we protect/get value from flush draw + over card type hands...and maybe we'll even get a call from 99-TT.

[cs3]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know why everyone is so quick to put the CO on such a narrow range of QQ+ here. After the SBs 3-bet, and our call, even tight players are going to play a wider range than usual here: any pair, high suited cards, maybe even suited connectors, suited Aces.



[/ QUOTE ]

those hands arent floating the flop very often and if they do they are hardly ever putting another cent into the pot unless they improve. my point was that if you do manage to get it in here, his range is much closer to 88/QQ+ than what you listed above.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't know why everyone is so quick to put the CO on such a narrow range of QQ+ here. After the SBs 3-bet, and our call, even tight players are going to play a wider range than usual here: any pair, high suited cards, maybe even suited connectors, suited Aces.



[/ QUOTE ]

those hands arent floating the flop very often and if they do they are hardly ever putting another cent into the pot unless they improve. my point was that if you do manage to get it in here, his range is much closer to 88/QQ+ than what you listed above.

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so you wanna check/fold the turn on the basis that we'll only get called if we're crushed?

i'm more than happy if we shove and villain folds KdQd or something similar. and i still think that we'll sometimes get called by worse hands.

[RikkiDee]

[ QUOTE ]

those hands arent floating the flop very often and if they do they are hardly ever putting another cent into the pot unless they improve. my point was that if you do manage to get it in here, his range is much closer to 88/QQ+ than what you listed above.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol what kind of nitty-ass TAGS are u playing that don't don't "float" that flop with 44-TT?

QQ is such a small part of his range here.

[cs3]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't know why everyone is so quick to put the CO on such a narrow range of QQ+ here. After the SBs 3-bet, and our call, even tight players are going to play a wider range than usual here: any pair, high suited cards, maybe even suited connectors, suited Aces.



[/ QUOTE ]

those hands arent floating the flop very often and if they do they are hardly ever putting another cent into the pot unless they improve. my point was that if you do manage to get it in here, his range is much closer to 88/QQ+ than what you listed above.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you wanna check/fold the turn on the basis that we'll only get called if we're crushed?

i'm more than happy if we shove and villain folds KdQd or something similar. and i still think that we'll sometimes get called by worse hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, thats not what i said. i expect turn to go check/check pretty often and then we can value bet river expecting to get called by mp's more often than on the turn. and id rather ch/call a turn shove than open push.
also, dont you think diamonds + overs are shoving that flop a ton?

[Anycall]

i am also in the checking camp. as cs3 has said, i think turn action will go check-check more often than not. if the villain has some type of mp here and turn gets checked thru, his river bet calling range is much wider than the range w/ which he would call the turn bet. as for the possibility of villain floating this flop, i think u will have general idea as to how float happy the villain is, given u have about 400hands vs him. if u think he is float happy, then check calling AI on turn should be the way to go.

[mdkrahn]

I don't see how this could be QQ+.

I'm going broke here, it's just a matter how.

I think I prefer leading to crai as I think it gets checked through too often, and there are quite a few rivers we don't want to see that will lose us value.

[Chaos_ult]

This is a pretty tough spot for sure.

Stack sizes are kind of awkward for a turn check oop like this imo unless you're planning on calling his AI on most (read: non diamond) rivers.

That said, I probably just bet the turn myself.

[Chaos_ult]

bumping this because I think this hand deserves more discussion.

[SykoraG]

In my experience, 20/13s generally have a very narrow 3bet calling range = 1010+/AK ... I really can't see CO holding something like 44-99. That being said what was his fold to flop bet percentage? If CO is floaty than I think an argument can be made for getting it AI on the turn, but I still don't like it.