What level SitnGo to start at?

[Matt Williams]

[ QUOTE ]
arrghhh. I played seven $1 SnGs and noticed two things
-Some of the worst players I've ever seen play these things
-I seem to get bored and stop caring and then make horrible moves

maybe they're not for me. all I have to show for that run is one third place finish. may give it one more shot tomorrow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea welcome to online play. Boredom sucks. But just do 1 at a time. This is the reason online pros are better than live ones. They have the patience to sit there and grind it out for hours and hours.

[foal]

heh, I don't have that problem with 6-max ring games. I don't know what it is about SnGs.

[Cameron McCown]

Foal,
Single table SnG's are one of my favorite styles of poker to play, because they can be the most profitable given the amount of time you're playing once you get into the swing of how they're played. The form's the same in just about every one of them.

I play on 'Stars, too, and with a bankroll of 150, you should start at 1.20, because you don't have at least 50x your buy-in for the 5.50, and you will be nervous. You'll need some time to get in the groove of a SnG, and you'll only have 30 times to do it at the 5.50 level.

Now I've worked my way up to the 30 + 3, but I've been a young warthog in the 1.20, and I'll let you know how I learned to beat them. Almost every setup is the same. You'll have about a third of the players playing because they just deposited their first $20, and they see they only have to beat 6 people in order to make a lot of money. So they play just like they play in the free-rolls (incredibly loose), and they either go out within the first 3 blinds or one of them might get lucky and take out a good player who didn't have the pot odds to call. Leave them alone. In the first 3 rounds of that 1.20 SnG, play only AA - QQ, AK, and pretty much AQs and JJ in late position. Seriously. The blinds are not eating you up at this point, and you can play a tight-and-aggressive (TAG) strategy into the 50/100 blinds and be fine.

So now, you've played very tightly, so #1 You've won a high percentage of the hands you've played. #2 You probably have a chip stack anywhere between 1800 - 2400 chips. #3 (probably most important) You've developed a TAG image on the table. People respect you. This will come in handy when it comes to stealing the blinds with marginal cards later.

Focus on middle stacks. Don't challenge big stacks without the nuts, and little stacks are feeling pressure from the blinds to play donkish, and so you have to watch out for them. Is the board tight? Loose? Change your playing style throughout the SnG; it's the only way to win.

Sometimes the best thing to do in a SnG when you're in 1st or 2nd place with 5 plrs remaining is just to sit back and watch other players eat each other; it's great fun. You can take 'em when you're three-handed and in the money.

If you want to know more about SnG on 'stars, just say so, and I'll e-mail you. This is just a brief overview, but I hope it helps. Be comfortable when you're playing. Be confident in your abilities; you are the best player there. And play smartly. Take care.

Cameron

[foal]

thanks Cameron. that's good info.
I'm used to 6-max NL 5 where the players are generally pretty tight after the flop and an aggressive smallball style works well... so I think I've been playing way too loose-aggressive. I'm also not used to adjusting my play according to the blinds and might be over-adjusting.

[DeuceSeven]

Depends on how much money you have. If you can always reload your bankroll then I wouldn't start anywhere that has more then 10% rake, on stars I'd play $5.50 and $6.50. If you can't reload just have 100 buy ins for your given stake. Make sure you check out the stt forum, awesome forum and much better then anything you'll gleam from hoh for sngs.

[Cameron McCown]

right...6-max ring games are fun, and they can reward the LAG player, but in a SnG games, you can make literally hundreds of dollars in just about an hour by getting the groove right in the 1.20 games you're playing now. The way you adjust your play is from tight to loose - and loose only if you are out of the top 2 places.

At the 100/200 level, you've gotta add some cards to that list if you're out of the top two. It's no excuse to play A/5o or 9/7s, but you will get better cards that you can play with. Experiment with it, foal, and you'll get better. Some people even play tightly all the way up until the top three. Sometimes you can do that, and really rip people open when you do play, but I think you'll find playing somewhat marginal hands in late position late in a SnG will really pay off for you as well.

Also remember, you are putting 1.20 or 5.50 of your money down all at once; it's not like a ring game where you just play a percentage of that each time. If you go on a streak, a not-winning streak, and you just can't figure out why - you know it's frustrating you and you just want to do it "one more time" - sometimes you've gotta just step away. Perhaps make the money back in the 6-max game and try, try again. But someone gave me that advice first getting into SnG's, and it has saved me so much on my bankroll. You start questioning yourself mentally and playing irrational decisions, and it's just not good.

I'll play a lot more 1.20 SnG's in the next few days, and if you see me, let me know by typing, and I'll let you in on my hole cards if I can via some other communication. The sn's CMac1984. Take care.

Cameron

[OMGJuliet]

[ QUOTE ]

Seriously, I would say 20 at the most. I mean, if you have the basics down, you will be OK. Keep in mind at that level, most don't care. Now if you were to ask about a level like $50, that would be a different story.


[/ QUOTE ]
You definitely underestimate the variance in STTs. It is no exception going all-in as a favorite preflop and losing all hands 5 times in a row, which means 5x out of the money. I would say a good samplesize for the nano-SNGs is 100 SNGs. If you are breakeven or worse after 100 SNGs you are playing wrong.
Since the Foldequity goes way down in the lower STTs you are going to lose 2/3 of the Pots you raised preflop if you don't hit TPTK or better. Most Flops are at least 3handed. Also 2/3 of all SNGs you play you are going to be shortstacked by the time the blinds are 100/200. It is very very important, that you are familiar with the ICM independent chip model.
You have to be aware that the +EV in Cashgames is _not_ the same as the $EV in SNGs, given through the payout structure.

As a beginner i would recommend playing the normal SNGs only. Turbos wont portray your edge in the shortterm and you might feel frustrated.

[QuickLearner]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll play a lot more 1.20 SnG's in the next few days, and if you see me, let me know by typing, and I'll let you in on my hole cards if I can via some other communication.

[/ QUOTE ]
Cameron, I think you're only trying to be helpful, but sharing hole card info is collusion. Since you've given out your Stars ID, and the Stars reps regularly read here, you should be especially careful not to break any rules that will get the Stars accounts of both you and the person you're trying to help confiscated.

[James81]

Hey man you say Sit&Go Bankrollmanagement says to have at least 50 buy ins for the Sit&Go Level ?

Why so much ? I play Sit&Go with a buy in of 5% of my totalbankroll!

I Read that Jesus Fergusion from Full Tilt do the same in his mission from zero to $10.000 He only buy in in Cashgames or Sit&Go Tourney when the buy in amount are 5% of his total bankroll.

[DeuceSeven]

It's very easy to go on a 20 buy in down swing. The reason you have a bigger bank roll is so that you can stay at your current level to get yourself back to running good instead of having to move down where it will take longer to break even.