Final Table Strategies

[Nick Nefsick]

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The blinds went up normally. I was just explaining that was the next hand I played that was significant and may have been the next hand I played period.

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ok, that wasn't clear from your original post. how many chips did you have after losing the AT hand? because you probably should be thinking about some of the situations where you could have pushed before the AQ hand - you let yourself get way too low there (<3 blinds) without playing a hand

[/ QUOTE ]I agree, find yourself some live cards and an unopened pot and get it in.
You mentioned M (which implies you've read Harrington) and that you had seen a number of allins at the table, depending on how many calls you've seen you can adjust your standards up from what HoH recommends. Play some online turbo STTs and you can get a pretty good basic feel for how it should go shorthanded with big blinds.

[crankalicious]

The comment on pot odds and fold equity is fascinating. However, doesn't it change the play by the fact that I'm the chip leader at that point. An AI commits all her chips certainly, but I think I was thinking it would be a sign of weakness. I suspect she would have called with her AJ regardless.

Also, in regards to the AQ AI, those were the best cards I had picked up after making the money, which I admit was important just for my confidence having gone out early on my previous final table.

Another question that hasn't been answered: I'm on the bubble. I raise the pot with AJ. Everyone folds. BB goes all-in. A call costs me 75% of my chips. Do I call?

Also, just an amusing side note, I've read the first HoH book and about 3/4 of the second - just up to the endgame part. I was definitely sitting there thinking: "I haven't got this far in the book yet". lol.

[skiier04]

You are not giving us enough information to give you advice on any of these.

We at least need to know blinds and realitively accurate stack sizes for each hand, as well as your own and villians position.

[Nick Nefsick]

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The comment on pot odds and fold equity is fascinating. However, doesn't it change the play by the fact that I'm the chip leader at that point. An AI commits all her chips certainly, but I think I was thinking it would be a sign of weakness. I suspect she would have called with her AJ regardless.

Also, in regards to the AQ AI, those were the best cards I had picked up after making the money, which I admit was important just for my confidence having gone out early on my previous final table.

Another question that hasn't been answered: I'm on the bubble. I raise the pot with AJ. Everyone folds. BB goes all-in. A call costs me 75% of my chips. Do I call?

Also, just an amusing side note, I've read the first HoH book and about 3/4 of the second - just up to the endgame part. I was definitely sitting there thinking: "I haven't got this far in the book yet". lol.

[/ QUOTE ] That is funny [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Question 1: yes it changes, it puts more pressure on your opponent because you can bust her.

question 2: There's normally nothing wrong with pushing 56 suited when you're short, especially if you've just folded a bunch of hands in a row. Usually you'll take down the pot and if you do get called you're 40-45% to win against something like AKo. Never underestimate the power of live cards and fold equity.

Question 3: it depends... As a general rule calling sucks. When considering the call try to put your opponent on a range of hands, then compare that range to what you'd LIKE to be up against (basically only AT-A2 or a weaker J) I'd assume a solid player would be pushing with AA-JJ AK and AQ (most of the time with) so AJ is a pretty easy fold.

[omg im l337]

I don't know if anyone has said it, but get Harrington on Hold'em vol. 1-3. This will help you dramatically in MTTs, and it will help your end game strategies at the final table. It will talk about your M (which is your starting stack in relation to the blinds and antes) and it will also talk about your Q, which is your relation to your stack compared to the average stack in the tournament. GREAT books and I can't suggest them enough. Good luck.

[Galwegian]

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Hello,

This is my first post, so be gentle...

The last three tourneys live tourneys I've played with about 80 people each, I've made two of three final tables. However, I definitely feel a little lost when I'm there.

This last one was dramatic in a way (what isn't). I went to the final table as the chip leader and finished 8th, cashing for the first time. My feeling is I didn't misplay anything, but I welcome any comments. Ultimately, two big hands put me out. Although I tried to play normally, the play mostly consisted of all-ins all the time. If I led out, I was generally re-raised all-in. Here are the two hands:

I'm SB. Everyone folds to me. I have A-10 os. My thought is: "good hand. I'm probably leading." Blinds are 2k/4k. I raise to 12k. I'm called. Flop comes A-6-3 rainbow. I lead out with another 12k raise. BB goes all-in for remaining 20k. I call. She turns over A-J os and it holds.

Two or three hands later: I'm dealt A-Q in middle position with an M of 1.5. Blinds are 6k/12k. I go all-in with 26,500k. BB calls me. Turns over AK. Holds up.

Another hand kind of haunts me. I had AJ os in middle position prior to making the money. I've got maybe 80k to callers 40k. I raise. He goes all-in. I fold.

Just curious about philosophy here. I feel my play was good and what most people would do. I just got beat by better cards and the timing was bad. I think there's no question about the AQ all-in, but maybe I should have thought about even getting in the other pot with A-10. However, given the circumstances, how could I not?

My main question is for the players with lots of final table experience in live games mostly. I'm wondering now if I had just waited, I could have probably survived 5 or 6 rounds of blinds, had half my chips still, and likely finished higher. However, a lesson I learned prior to this was, you just have to play your game and let the chips fall.

Curious about final table strategy, but any comments welcome.

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I think that your whole way of thinking needs some revision. As others have pointed out, the first two hands are automatic pushes - the fact that you lost in both cases is irrelevant. Worrying about that is completely results oriented thinking. Perhaps you should play a bunch of STT's - that will help your shorthhanded and shortstack game a lot (read some of the stuff from STTF)

[crankalicious]

Gal,

Good advice. Any elaboration would be appreciated. Am I right in understanding that what you're saying is that the play was basically sound (I led out in both situations)? Okay, maybe I go all-in with A-10 next time due to fold equity. That does make sense to me. My relative inexperience definitely lends itself to result-oriented thinking, though I know in my brain that I made decisions based on good odds, which is what you want to do. Heck, I played for 5 hours. As far as I'm concerned, at $60 buy-in, that's a really cheap poker lesson. I learned a lot.

I will say in my defense, is that the way I accumulated those chips was sitting to the right of the chip leader when I went to my third table, one before the final. He must have had 50k in chips to my 2500. When all was said and done, I had all his chips. That was mostly from putting intense pressure on him every chance I got and stealing his BB every reasonable opportunity. I guess I kind of changed my approach at the final table based on my sudden chip lead.

Great comments all.

[FlyingCarpet]

I had a lot of problems on the money/FT bubbles and got knocked out often even when I had a big stack. I would tighten up and only play top 15% hands. This caused me to be blinded down, especially if I was card dead.

I took the advice from this forum and started playing STTs and after a few games I started to understand the value of pushbotting opportunities and calling ranges for short stack pushes. I learned that I should be playing a wider range of hands more aggressively and to recognize those situations.

So, best advice is to finish reading HOH 1&2, play several STTs, frequent this and STT forum, post hands and finally pwn those final tables and win moniez.

[Njursparven]

As mentioned by many above, pick ur opponents. 3bet weak and bad players more often than others, and play ur good hands hard. Still, differs from situation to situation, but give people space to bust themselfs. Just hang in there and take it easy and abuse weak players and try to doubleup on ur good hands